is the Holy Spirit Involved in the "Modern Charasmatic' Movemnent at all?

[OldRegular]

Or are all those miracles/signs/wonders/prophecies of and from the devil?

Just what "miracles/signs/wonders/prophecies" did you have in mind?

 

[DHK]

Who are my co-horts? Who is claiming deity?

Since you refuse to do your homework, I will do it for you.
You have joined the Charismatic movement and your co-horts are those that you have jumped in bed with theologically. When you agree with them in some of their doctrines you are associated with them in their other doctrines. These faith healers:
Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, and some of the others in this group believe in what some call "the little god theory."
Benny Hinn said this: "We are all little gods running around on this earth."
That is a direct quote.
Who is claiming deity? Well that sounds like a claim to deity; so they do. And you are associated with them.
Not only are you associated with them in that heresy, but in a ton of other heretical doctrines as well. The Charismatic movement, by virtue of "continuing revelation" is a steady stream of heretical revelation. But when the Bible said in 1Cor.13:8 spoke of tongues, prophesy, and (revelatory) knowledge ceasing, it was talking of Biblical revelation.
Biblical revelation has ceased. The canon has been completed. There is no need for further revelation.

Well, you continue to stay in your little box and believe that! The Holy Spirit is moving in a powerful way! He can get more done in 10 minutes than we can in a century!
Nothing is impossible with God! Live in your history books! I want to be a part of what He is doing now!

You do err not knowing the Scripture neither the power of God.
Satan works miracles also.
As Jannes and Jambres did, so do false prophets. You are being deceived.
The fact that you reject 1800 years of history is pitiful, and that you believe in a cult that only started in 1905, not much longer than one hundred years ago. That is sad.

 

[awaken]

Since you refuse to do your homework, I will do it for you.
You have joined the Charismatic movement and your co-horts are those that you have jumped in bed with theologically. When you agree with them in some of their doctrines you are associated with them in their other doctrines. These faith healers:
Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, and some of the others in this group believe in what some call "the little god theory."
Benny Hinn said this: "We are all little gods running around on this earth."
That is a direct quote.
Who is claiming deity? Well that sounds like a claim to deity; so they do. And you are associated with them.
Not only are you associated with them in that heresy, but in a ton of other heretical doctrines as well. The Charismatic movement, by virtue of "continuing revelation" is a steady stream of heretical revelation. But when the Bible said in 1Cor.13:8 spoke of tongues, prophesy, and (revelatory) knowledge ceasing, it was talking of Biblical revelation.
Biblical revelation has ceased. The canon has been completed. There is no need for further revelation.

You are way off base here...but that does not surprise me! I believe the Holy Spirit still manifest Himself and will continue to do so until Jesus Christ returns! That does not make me a heretic!!

You do err not knowing the Scripture neither the power of God.
Satan works miracles also.
As Jannes and Jambres did, so do false prophets. You are being deceived.
The fact that you reject 1800 years of history is pitiful, and that you believe in a cult that only started in 1905, not much longer than one hundred years ago. That is sad.

What is sad is that you ignore the power of God moving today! You denounce the work of the Holy Spirit, explain it away, teach that He has ceased..denying the power! The Bible also has instructions about that in 2 Timothy!

 

[DHK]

You are way off base here...but that does not surprise me! I believe the Holy Spirit still manifest Himself and will continue to do so until Jesus Christ returns! That does not make me a heretic!!

Meaningless words. There is no one here that does not believe in the Holy Spirit or that the Holy Spirit manifests Himself. Your words are empty and meaningless. We all believe that. There is not a word in your statement above that I don't believe or any other Baptist doesn't believe. You are just deceiving yourself.

What is sad is that you ignore the power of God moving today! You denounce the work of the Holy Spirit, explain it away, teach that He has ceased..denying the power! The Bible also has instructions about that in 2 Timothy!

I know far more of the power of God than you do; have experienced it in my life and seen it in the lives of others.
The demonic work that you see, Jesus himself denounces and someday he will tell those that come and do "wonderful works in his name," that, "I never knew you, depart from me into everlasting fire."

 

[awaken]

Meaningless words. There is no one here that does not believe in the Holy Spirit or that the Holy Spirit manifests Himself. Your words are empty and meaningless. We all believe that. There is not a word in your statement above that I don't believe or any other Baptist doesn't believe. You are just deceiving yourself.

No, not every Baptist believes that the Holy Spirit still manifest himself as 1 Cor. 12-14 tells us he does! I am not deceived!

I know far more of the power of God than you do; have experienced it in my life and seen it in the lives of others.

You write this as you know me personally....How do you know who I am or what I have experience? What makes you speak so arrogant?

The demonic work that you see, Jesus himself denounces and someday he will tell those that come and do "wonderful works in his name," that, "I never knew you, depart from me into everlasting fire."

You make His word contradict itself the way you interpret it! He told us to go and He sent the Holy Spirit to empower us to do his will!

He also warns us to stay away from those that deny the power!

You have still not shown me in scriptures where He stop manifesting himself! Just your added words to what the text does not say!

 

[DHK]

No, not every Baptist believes that the Holy Spirit still manifest himself as 1 Cor. 12-14 tells us he does! I am not deceived!

Every Baptist believes in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit unless that Baptist is an unbeliever. Of course within the broader scope of denominations there are unbelievers among Baptists as there are everywhere. But you have this vague definition of "manifestation of the Holy Spirit," it is personalized "awakenized" by you. It is not theological, but rather more existential than anything. It simply is your definition not found in any dictionary. It is something you have made up. And that is why it is difficult to have an intelligent discussion with you on this topic. You have your own set of definitions; your own vocabulary. If someone will say grace, we are not sure if you will even define grace in the same way.

You write this as you know me personally....How do you know who I am or what I have experience? What makes you speak so arrogant?

You have been around for some time. I remember your previous posts and therefore what you believe.
The arrogance you speak of is usually sarcasm about the Charismatic movement that I have such disdain for. It has harmed so many people.

You make His word contradict itself the way you interpret it! He told us to go and He sent the Holy Spirit to empower us to do his will!

No, God's word doesn't contradict itself, but it does contradict your beliefs.
He empowers us; yes I believe that. That has nothing to do with miracles. Nowhere did he promise us that we would do miracles. Those who believe they have that power are frauds.

He also warns us to stay away from those that deny the power!

It is the opposite way around. He warns us to stay away from those who pretend to do miracles.
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

You have still not shown me in scriptures where He stop manifesting himself! Just your added words to what the text does not say!

I never said he stops manifesting himself. He does manifest himself.
But the gifts of the Spirit have ceased, as per 1Cor.13:8.
That has nothing to do with the manifestation of the Spirit.

You take this phrase from the KJV:
1 Corinthians 12:7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit to profit withal.
--You attach your own unique "awakenized meaning to it--undefinable.

Here is another translation:
(CEV) The Spirit has given each of us a special way of serving others.
--Very simple isn't it? No "manifestation" is there?
No 25 cent word to hang your hat on here.
The verse doesn't mean what you think it does.

Look at the translation and then ask yourself:
What believer does not believe that the Holy Spirit enables them to serve others. That is what it means. That is all.

 

[awaken]

Every Baptist believes in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit unless that Baptist is an unbeliever. Of course within the broader scope of denominations there are unbelievers among Baptists as there are everywhere. But you have this vague definition of "manifestation of the Holy Spirit," it is personalized "awakenized" by you. It is not theological, but rather more existential than anything. It simply is your definition not found in any dictionary. It is something you have made up. And that is why it is difficult to have an intelligent discussion with you on this topic. You have your own set of definitions; your own vocabulary. If someone will say grace, we are not sure if you will even define grace in the same way.

You have been around for some time. I remember your previous posts and therefore what you believe.
The arrogance you speak of is usually sarcasm about the Charismatic movement that I have such disdain for. It has harmed so many people.

No, God's word doesn't contradict itself, but it does contradict your beliefs.
He empowers us; yes I believe that. That has nothing to do with miracles. Nowhere did he promise us that we would do miracles. Those who believe they have that power are frauds.

It is the opposite way around. He warns us to stay away from those who pretend to do miracles.
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

I never said he stops manifesting himself. He does manifest himself.
But the gifts of the Spirit have ceased, as per 1Cor.13:8.
That has nothing to do with the manifestation of the Spirit.

You take this phrase from the KJV:
1 Corinthians 12:7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit to profit withal.
--You attach your own unique "awakenized meaning to it--undefinable.

Here is another translation:
(CEV) The Spirit has given each of us a special way of serving others.
--Very simple isn't it? No "manifestation" is there?
No 25 cent word to hang your hat on here.
The verse doesn't mean what you think it does.

Look at the translation and then ask yourself:
What believer does not believe that the Holy Spirit enables them to serve others. That is what it means. That is all.

:BangHead:

 

[Revmitchell]

:BangHead:

:BangHead:

 

[evangelist-7]

I am a member of a full gospel Baptist church!
I fellowship with Baptist believers that have embraced the truth in the Bible
about the manifestation of the Holy Spirit. We are not cessationalists!

This is the most encouraging post that I've ever read here on this forum!
All I can say is, "Praise the Lord!".

.

 

[Revmitchell]

If your Christianity is completely wrapped up in these so called manifestations of the HG then your religion is shallow at best.

 

[awaken]

If your Christianity is completely wrapped up in these so called manifestations of the HG then your religion is shallow at best.

I have experienced over the last 10 years that those that can not back up their doctrines by scriptures usually turn the attack on the person.

These "so called manifestations" are Biblical!

 

[Revmitchell]

I have experienced over the last 10 years that those that can not back up their doctrines by scriptures usually turn the attack on the person.

These "so called manifestations" are Biblical!

First you have only made a claim that they are biblical and you not have proven anything. Second there was no "attack". Third, you have, as charismatics always do, done nothing but ripped scripture out of context in order to 'prove" your activities are "biblical". This is a huge problem with charismatics. They are often unskilled in the word and ignorantly use scripture in an eisegetical way.

When the only thing in your walk with God that you can focus on is these psuedo gifts then you are missing the bigger picture. You are more worried about what you can get from God than what you can give and that is idolatrous.

 

[DHK]

I have experienced over the last 10 years that those that can not back up their doctrines by scriptures usually turn the attack on the person.

These "so called manifestations" are Biblical!

So far you have proved on this board that you don't know what "the manifestation of the Spirit" is.
Everyone of us believe in the "manifestation of the Spirit."
Thus you spew out a lot of hot air to no avail.

 

[awaken]

First you have only made a claim that they are biblical and you not have proven anything. Second there was no "attack". Third, you have, as charismatics always do, done nothing but ripped scripture out of context in order to 'prove" your activities are "biblical". This is a huge problem with charismatics. They are often unskilled in the word and ignorantly use scripture in an eisegetical way.

When the only thing in your walk with God that you can focus on is these psuedo gifts then you are missing the bigger picture. You are more worried about what you can get from God than what you can give and that is idolatrous.

What part of 1 Cor. 12-14 is not Biblical? Is it just 12:7 that is tripping you up on not understanding the manifestations of Spirit?

 

[awaken]

So far you have proved on this board that you don't know what "the manifestation of the Spirit" is.
Everyone of us believe in the "manifestation of the Spirit."
Thus you spew out a lot of hot air to no avail.

In context of 1 Cor. 12-14...you do not understand the manifestation of the Spirit!
Manifestation-evidence or proof of something; the embodiment of a spirit.(Webster)
Phanerosis (Greek)- means manifestation

The Holy Spirit is the power that is in us and Works through us!
THe HOly Spirit is given to profit all of us and those manifestations are listed in vs. 8-10.

You sir do not want to accept this truth! Because to accept it would flush your doctrines down the toilet concerning this! You among many others want to explain it away because you are not experiencing it in your own life and your church!

I have embraced this truth... experienced this truth in my own life and my church gatherings! NOTHING including your unbelief can change that!

 

[Revmitchell]

What part of 1 Cor. 12-14 is not Biblical? Is it just 12:7 that is tripping you up on not understanding the manifestations of Spirit?

Wrong question. The real and honest question should be "What activities that are going on today, that are claimed by Charismatics to be exactly like what Jesus and the first century church did, are actually like them?"


The answer is few and far between. The problem for charismatics is they do not understand the nature of the gifts and are only seeking an experience rather than seeking a genuine relationship with God.

 

[evangelist-7]

If your Christianity is completely wrapped up in these so called manifestations of the HG
then your religion is shallow at best.

Yes, da Christianity of Jesus, Paul, etc. was all wrapped up in SWM.

You are from da 1 Cor 1:26+ group, which is okay, except for ...

Well, if you are able to comprehend Scripture, read it for yourself.
.

 

[DHK]

In context of 1 Cor. 12-14...you do not understand the manifestation of the Spirit!
Manifestation-evidence or proof of something; the embodiment of a spirit.(Webster)
Phanerosis (Greek)- means manifestation

The Holy Spirit is the power that is in us and Works through us!
THe HOly Spirit is given to profit all of us and those manifestations are listed in vs. 8-10.

You sir do not want to accept this truth! Because to accept it would flush your doctrines down the toilet concerning this! You among many others want to explain it away because you are not experiencing it in your own life and your church!

I have embraced this truth... experienced this truth in my own life and my church gatherings! NOTHING including your unbelief can change that!

The truth that you have embraced is not a Biblical truth at all.
Define "Manifestation of the Spirit."
I ask you to do that. You come up with some New Age, esoteric, existential, metaphysical, non-Biblical, "awakenized" personal definition of this term. IOW, you don't know what it means.
Let me quote from my previous quote to you, what the term means.
As I pointed out it is easy to see when looking at it from another translation:

(CEV) "The Spirit has given each of us a special way of serving others."
--Very simple isn't it? No "manifestation" is there?
No 25 cent word to hang your hat on here.
The verse doesn't mean what you think it does.

Look at the translation and then ask yourself:
What believer does not believe that the Holy Spirit enables them to serve others. That is what it means. That is all.

 

[evangelist-7]

Awaken, many heart congratulations!

You have come to the right place to witness Satan kicking up his heels and going on a rampage.

All you have to do is mention that God's SWM are for today, and you gots yourself quite a show!
.

 

[Alcott]

What part of 1 Cor. 12-14 is not Biblical?

Are tongues a sign not for believers but for unbelievers? [14 v. 22]
Are tongues limited to 2 or 3? [14 v. 27]
Are tongues interpreted by not more nor less than one? [14 v.27]
Are speakers of tongues silent if there is not that one interpreter? [14 v.28]
Do 2 or 3 prophets speak (not one, not more than 3? [14 v.29]
Do others pass judgment on the prophets? [14 v. 29]
Do women keep silent, not permitted to speak? [14 v.34]