Is The Papacy Threatened?

[BillySunday1935]

So... when the bread is transformed into the flesh of Christ and the wine into His blood, it is being ripped from His body now? yeah, that makes perfect sense... not.

If Christ has made the sacrifice and has risen, why do Catholics depict Him as continually on the cross? The cross, just like the tomb, is empty. Keeping Him on the cross denies His finished work.

I have a corpus on only one side of the cross that I own. That way, when I get challeneged about this, I just flip it over onto the blank side and - voila - Christ is risen.

 

[lori4dogs]

I have a corpus on only one side of the cross that I own. That way, when I get challeneged about this, I just flip it over onto the blank side and - voila - Christ is risen.

You made my day! :wavey:

 

[DHK]

The Associated Press
Date: Mon. Apr. 12 2010 5:01 PM ET

VATICAN CITY — The Vatican responded Monday to allegations that it had concealed years of clerical sex abuse by making it clear for the first time that bishops and other high-ranking clerics should report such crimes to police if required by law.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...atican_abuse_100412/20100412?hub=TopStoriesV2


The bolding is mine. But notice how the Vatican worded its statement. The "should" report such crimes; not must report such crimes.
IF required by law, which means if the law doesn't require reporting the rape of little children they don't have to report it. They can go on and enjoy their perverted follies. How horrible!!


Look also at this news:

CTV News Channel: Mark Stephens, rights lawyer

An international human rights lawyer says it is possible for the pope to be arrested, and there are likely crimes for which he could be prosecuted in the International Criminal Court.

Now that is an interesting headline. What will be the outcome of this one??

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The Associated Press
Date: Mon. Apr. 12 2010 5:01 PM ET

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...atican_abuse_100412/20100412?hub=TopStoriesV2


The bolding is mine. But notice how the Vatican worded its statement. The "should" report such crimes; not must report such crimes.
IF required by law, which means if the law doesn't require reporting the rape of little children they don't have to report it. They can go on and enjoy their perverted follies. How horrible!!


Look also at this news:

Now that is an interesting headline. What will be the outcome of this one??
[/COLOR]

I think there is an athiest group in the UK headed by Dawkins who are making plans to have the Pope arrested when he visits that country. Which will be interesting to see if that transpires.
My only consern is what kind of president does that set? For instance will common law make it ok to arrest any religious leader based on any allegation? Will it jump from obvious crimes like pedeophilia to prevent freedom of speach if its against a civil government? It should be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[BillySunday1935]

I think there is an athiest group in the UK headed by Dawkins who are making plans to have the Pope arrested when he visits that country. Which will be interesting to see if that transpires.
My only consern is what kind of president does that set? For instance will common law make it ok to arrest any religious leader based on any allegation? Will it jump from obvious crimes like pedeophilia to prevent freedom of speach if its against a civil government? It should be interesting to see how it pans out.

The Pope is the head of state for Rome - a sovereign country with a representative at the UN. As such, he enjoys diplomatic immunity. I seriously doubt this will go anywhere.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The Pope is the head of state for Rome - a sovereign country with a representative at the UN. As such, he enjoys diplomatic immunity. I seriously doubt this will go anywhere.

Didn't stop the UN from arresting Radovan Karadzic another independent country's leader. Nor is it stoping them from threatening to arrest Omar al Bashir leader of the independent nation of Sudan either.

 

[BillySunday1935]

Didn't stop the UN from arresting Radovan Karadzic another independent country's leader. Nor is it stoping them from threatening to arrest Omar al Bashir leader of the independent nation of Sudan either.

There are two seminal differences here.
1) These individuals were charged by the UN and not by the UK where Hitchens is making his accusations.

2) The gravity of the accusations against the Pope by the atheist Hitchens simply do not rise to the same level as those against Karadzic and Bashir (I.e. mass murder, genocide, ethnic cleansing, etc.) Could it happen? It’s possible, but not likely (in my opinion). However, it will be interesting to follow none-the-less.

† Peace †

 

[lori4dogs]

The Associated Press
Date: Mon. Apr. 12 2010 5:01 PM ET

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...atican_abuse_100412/20100412?hub=TopStoriesV2


The bolding is mine. But notice how the Vatican worded its statement. The "should" report such crimes; not must report such crimes.
IF required by law, which means if the law doesn't require reporting the rape of little children they don't have to report it. They can go on and enjoy their perverted follies. How horrible!!


Look also at this news:

Now that is an interesting headline. What will be the outcome of this one??
[/COLOR]

It is my understanding that it is Richard Dawkins, the evolutionist and atheist campaigner that is vowing to have the pope arrested when he visits the UK. Personally I think it would be a lot better to have Dawkins arrested for impersonating a human being.

I find it strange that we don't see the Western press providing a platform for individuals attacking Hindu, Muslim, or atheist leaders.

We can only wonder why.

 

[DHK]

It is my understanding that it is Richard Dawkins, the evolutionist and atheist campaigner that is vowing to have the pope arrested when he visits the UK. Personally I think it would be a lot better to have Dawkins arrested for impersonating a human being.

I find it strange that we don't see the Western press providing a platform for individuals attacking Hindu, Muslim, or atheist leaders.

We can only wonder why.

I don't know what you are talking about, unless you truly believe as the Bible predicts that the RCC will someday be the one-world religion, and the pope the satanic Antichrist. That is the only way I can reconcile your remarks. Do you believe that the RCC is even Christian? You don't come across like you do.

Here is why. The issue is not religion. Atheism is a religion also, albeit a secular religion. So is Islam and Hinduism. Do you believe in freedom of religion or are you back to a belief in the Crusades and the Inquisition when all freedom of religion is taken away?

Atheists have a right to their beliefs. If others, atheists or not, wish to take the pope to court for their sinful actions (rape, (at least countenancing it), or the other criminal actions of the RCC, they are in their perfect rights to do so. You could do it too. So could a Hindu, and so could a Pentecostal, Presbyterian, J.W., or absolutely anyone. Prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law. Any other criminal would be. The Pope is not above the law!

 

[Melanie]

The Pope is the head of state for Rome - a sovereign country with a representative at the UN. As such, he enjoys diplomatic immunity. I seriously doubt this will go anywhere.

No he is not. The Pope is the Head of State for the Vatican City State, as per the Lateran Accord of 1929. This is several square hectares and has a small permanent population.

Last I checked the pope is not an American citizen. He does however have to give an account to his Master the head of the church Jesus Christ.

 

[steaver]

Last I checked the pope is not an American citizen. He does however have to give an account to his Master the head of the church Jesus Christ.

Not sure if we can judge that Jesus is the pope's Master according to what he understands of the scriptures and the abuse he had allowed under his watch. God knows for sure those that are His.

:jesus:

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The Pope is not above the law!

Yes that would be true if Judge Dredd were around.

 

[DHK]

Yes that would be true if Judge Dredd were around.

It is always true. If he will not be judged by man on earth in his lifetime here; then he will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment in eternity.
Consider again:

Pope's No. 2: Pedophilia linked to homosexuality
By BRAD HAYNES (AP) – 2 days ago


SANTIAGO, Chile — The Vatican's second-highest authority says the sex scandals haunting the Roman Catholic Church are linked to homosexuality and not celibacy among priests.


Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican's secretary of state, made the comments during a news conference Monday in Chile, where one of the church's highest-profile pedophile cases involves a priest having sex with young girls.


"Many psychologists and psychiatrists have demonstrated that there is no relation between celibacy and pedophilia. But many others have demonstrated, I have been told recently, that there is a relation between homosexuality and pedophilia. That is true," said Bertone. "That is the problem."


His comments drew angry reactions from Chile's gay rights advocates.
"Neither Bertone nor the Vatican has the moral authority to give lessons on sexuality," said Rolando Jimenez, president of the Movement for Homosexual Integration and Liberation in Chile.
Jimenez also said no reputable study exists to support the cardinal's claims.


"This is a perverse strategy by the Vatican to shirk its own ethical and legal responsibility by making a spurious and disgusting connection," he said.


At least one of the highest-profile pedophiles in the Chilean church victimized young girls, including a teenager who became pregnant.
At the time, the archbishop of the capital, Santiago, received multiple complaints about Father Jose Andres Aguirre from families concerned for their daughters. But the priest — known to his parishioners as Father Tato — continued serving at a number of Catholic girls schools in the city.
Later the church sent Aguirre out of Chile twice amid abuse allegations. He was eventually sentenced to 12 years in prison for abusing 10 teenage girls.


One of the girls, identified as Paula, said that she and the priest started to have sex when she was 16 and that it lasted until she was 20.


She told the Chilean newspaper La Nacion: "I thought it wasn't that bad to have sex with him because when I told priests about it at confession they just told me to pray and that was it. They knew, and some of them guessed that it was Father Tato. But everyone looked the other way. No one corrected or helped me."


She said one of the priests she confessed to about her sex with Aguirre was Bishop Francisco Jose Cox, who himself was facing allegations of pedophilia.


Cox had been bishop in La Serena, in northern Chile, for seven years when he was removed in 1997 amid rumors that he was a pedophile. He was first transferred to Santiago, then Rome, then Colombia, and finally Germany. The Schoenstatt movement, a worldwide lay community within the Catholic Church, paid for the moves and his treatment.
In 2002, Santiago Archbishop Francisco Javier Erraruriz said Cox had agreed to be removed for "inappropriate conduct."


The archbishop acknowledged Cox had shown "affection that was a bit exuberant," especially toward children, but said, "I'm not aware of any formal allegation backed by evidence."


Erraruriz said Cox volunteered to be confined to a Schoenstatt convent in Colombia to continue "praying to God for his pardon for the errors he has made."


Last week, the archbishop admitted the Chilean church was investigating cases of priest pedophilia after playing the issue down for years.
"There is something to these pedophilia abuses — just a few, thank God," Errazuriz said in an interview on state television.


Associated Press Writer Eva Vergara contributed to this report.
Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

http://www.worthynews.com/top/googl...-ALeqM5gnpDKs8IpZ8wQ3_kz6yCg3UoyPKAD9F1Q5C00/

 

[BillySunday1935]

It is always true. If he will not be judged by man on earth in his lifetime here; then he will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment in eternity.
Consider again:

http://www.worthynews.com/top/googl...-ALeqM5gnpDKs8IpZ8wQ3_kz6yCg3UoyPKAD9F1Q5C00/

I thought that you might be interested in the sexual abuse scandals of other churches here in the US...

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video?id=3032132

Peace!

 

[lori4dogs]

I thought that you might be interested in the sexual abuse scandals of other churches here in the US...

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video?id=3032132

Peace!

Nope, they are not interested in the least. Only those perpetrated by clergy within the Catholic Church (the Great Whore of Babylon!). They dismiss the fact that the majority of clergy abuse is committed by Protestants or that Protestants are guilty of cover-ups as well.

 

[matt wade]

They dismiss the fact that the majority of clergy abuse is committed by Protestants or that Protestants are guilty of cover-ups as well.

I won't dismiss the fact, if you can give me one. Please show me proof and facts that Protestants are responsible for the majority of clergy abuse cases.

(for this discussion I'll allow you to lump Baptists in with Protestants, but for the record I don't think they belong there)

 

[lori4dogs]

I won't dismiss the fact, if you can give me one. Please show me proof and facts that Protestants are responsible for the majority of clergy abuse cases.

(for this discussion I'll allow you to lump Baptists in with Protestants, but for the record I don't think they belong there)

Have you read the entire thread? I will re-post the documentation if needed, but it is there.

 

[matt wade]

Have you read the entire thread? I will re-post the documentation if needed, but it is there.

PM it to me if you like.

 

[lori4dogs]

PM it to me if you like.

Here is a link, Matt, one not yet posted on this thread, which shows the sexual abuse of minors is slightly higher among Protestant clergy being slightly higher than in the Catholic clergy.

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm

 

[lori4dogs]

This statement is found in the reports 'conclusion':

"Too often, assumptions have been made that this problem is worse in the Catholic clergy than in other sectors of society. This report does not support this conclusion. Indeed, it shows that family members are the most likely to sexually molest a child. It also shows that the incidence of the sexual abuse of a minor is slightly higher among the Protestant clergy than among the Catholic clergy, . . . "