Is theology SUPPOSED to be simple?

[Winman]

So then it is your contention that NOTHING in the Bible and theology is complex?

All I can say is this, everytime scripture has seemed difficult and complex, when I learned the answer it seemed amazingly simple. In fact, once my eyes were opened, I was absolutely amazed why I couldn't see how simple the answer was before, such as the example I gave. I knew Jesus had offered his blood on the mercy seat in heaven, but when I read Romans 4:25 I didn't put the two together. But when my pastor asked me what Jesus did when he ascended to heaven, I immediately saw the answer. It was simple too.

I agree with MB, you have to pray and ask God to reveal scripture to you. I can honestly say God has answered this prayer for me many times. I have wondered about a particular verse and prayed for God to help me understand it, and then gone to church that day and the pastor preached a sermon on that very verse and explained it to me. That has actually happened to me quite a number of times.

But it is not always that easy. Sometimes you have to pray for many months, or even years before God answers your prayer. But most of the time I get a pretty quick answer.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

God has proved these verses to me many times. It is now easy for me to believe God will answer my prayers when scripture seems difficult.

I have never gotten much from reading men. My pastor from many years ago told me he quit reading commentaries. I asked him why, and he said that whenever he had difficulty with scripture and consulted a commentary, those writers had as much difficulty as he did. I agree with this and get very little from commentaries personally.

But trust God's promise in James and see for yourself how quick the answers will come.

 

[Havensdad]

The scriptures are clear on this; the things necessary for salvation, are simple.

All theology is not.

It is no accident that the word for "study" in the New Testament, in regards to "dividing the Word of Truth" means to "sweat" or "exert oneself." Studying the scriptures on some things, are absolutely difficult, and anyone who says otherwise, has failed to wrestle with them!

The idea that the entirety of theology is "easy", is insulting and blasphemous. "Theology" is the study of God, and to say that it is easy for humans, is to say that God is less than we. Obviously this diminishing of God is where so many fall into error; trying to reduce God to human logic, rather than trusting what the scriptures say, understanding that God is larger than we.

 

[Havensdad]

All I can say is this, everytime scripture has seemed difficult and complex, when I learned the answer it seemed amazingly simple. In fact, once my eyes were opened, I was absolutely amazed why I couldn't see how simple the answer was before, such as the example I gave. I knew Jesus had offered his blood on the mercy seat in heaven, but when I read Romans 4:25 I didn't put the two together. But when my pastor asked me what Jesus did when he ascended to heaven, I immediately saw the answer. It was simple too.

I agree with MB, you have to pray and ask God to reveal scripture to you. I can honestly say God has answered this prayer for me many times. I have wondered about a particular verse and prayed for God to help me understand it, and then gone to church that day and the pastor preached a sermon on that very verse and explained it to me. That has actually happened to me quite a number of times.

But it is not always that easy. Sometimes you have to pray for many months, or even years before God answers your prayer. But most of the time I get a pretty quick answer.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

God has proved these verses to me many times. It is now easy for me to believe God will answer my prayers when scripture seems difficult.

I have never gotten much from reading men. My pastor from many years ago told me he quit reading commentaries. I asked him why, and he said that whenever he had difficulty with scripture and consulted a commentary, those writers had as much difficulty as he did. I agree with this and get very little from commentaries personally.

But trust God's promise in James and see for yourself how quick the answers will come.

I am sorry, but this is sad. The Holy Spirit does not just "poof" knowledge into people's heads. Yes, He gives wisdom in answer to prayer. Now the question is, HOW does he give that wisdom? He answers that question.

Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,


It is the height of human arrogance that says that God speaks to them, but ignores what God has said to others. Apparently people of this breed, actually hold themselves up as the final authority.

Personally, I read all of the commentaries I can. I am a weak wretch of a man, with a wicked heart and poor motives. But thank the Lord that he has seen fit to give us teachers, that help keep such things in check.

I wonder if some of the people in Corinth said "I don't care what the apostle Paul says. I feel God is leading me to..."

 

[quantumfaith]

I'm not quite sure where you're headed with this, but they are "simple". We are saved by Jesus Christ, and Him crucified and raised from the dead. Any child can grasp that -- and most do if presented with that gospel picture.

But, what happened in the life, ministry, passion, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus? That is not at all simplistic. It is an infinite God at work in only ways He can work. Even understanding the first concepts of what it is that God has and is doing is difficult work that requires much thought, deciding where one stands on a myriad of Bible passages, and even to details like grasping nuances of the original language, etc.

FWIW, the church has ALWAYS had professional theologians in her midst, from the earliest days forward. Before the church, Israel had professional theologians also. These are described in the Bible and in the literature that they left behind for us to read and know.

For instance, the Didache (read it here):
http://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/Didache-text.html
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/didache.html

This is a theological document written by someone approximately concurrent with the end of the Apostle John's life. It is that old. Whether rightly or wrongly, it is attributed to the "12" as the common teaching of the church in that era, roughly 70 years after the resurrection of Christ. Before that, we have the original Apostles, who gave us the NT, highly theological in nature, not just a story book, and it was noted with internal evidence that "these men were with Jesus."

Read the Early Fathers of the Church to see the earliest history, from circa AD 90 onward:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers.html

• Polycarp studied under John the Apostle. First generation church leaders, and we can read his words!
• The Epistle to Diognetus was written by "the disciple of the Apostles" circa AD 130. His style mirrors the Apostle Paul, he was obviously under the influences of Paul.
• Clement of Rome, circa AD 30-100, almost certainly studied under Peter and Paul. He was bishop of Rome after Peter.
• Ignatius, circa AD 30-100 was a disciple of John the Apostle.
• Papias, circa AD 70-155 claimed to have studied under John and was a cohort of Polycarp.

These men were theologians and scholars, who helped to develop the newly formed Christian church based on teachings that were passed down to them by the original 12 (counting Paul). Yes, forever, there have been scholars in the church!

Great Post, thanks for mentioning the Didache, so many do not even "consider" it associating it only with Catholicism. I have read it, some time back and was astounded by the similarities between it and many statements in our NT cannon.

 

[luke1616]

Simple?

After it is revealed, it's simple. Before I get understanding, it looks like a mountain. It's kinda like when I thought it was impossible to lay hands on someone, pray and heal them. Then when I saw it happen the first time I was blown away. Then I looked back at the scriptures that say we believers will do the same things Jesus did, it was simple. Still blows me away though lol.:love2:

 

[quantumfaith]

Thanks. My sentiments exactly.

This is why I think it is unhealthy for us to pin roses on people who always try debase gloriously complex subjects by demanding that EVERYTHING be simple.

Luke, perhaps we are all either "getting the cart before the horse" or maybe talking around one another. Although I have not read every post.. here is my sentiment.

I dont think anyone wishes to "trivialize" theology by saying it is simple. The process of salvation (and we wont argue that) is simplified, however, all the richness and mercy and grace and love......behind it is anything but simple.

 

[Winman]

The idea that the entirety of theology is "easy", is insulting and blasphemous.

Blasphemous? Boy, some folks throw that word around easily here.

2 Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The scriptures themselves speak of the "simplicity" that is in Christ and warn us to beware of those who would corrupt our minds through subtilty.

So, you are insulted when average men can understand the scriptures? That is nothing new.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

The religious leaders in Jesus's day were offended when a simple carpenter taught the word of God. Nothing has changed today.

 

[quantumfaith]

I am sorry, but this is sad. The Holy Spirit does not just "poof" knowledge into people's heads. Yes, He gives wisdom in answer to prayer. Now the question is, HOW does he give that wisdom? He answers that question.

Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,


It is the height of human arrogance that says that God speaks to them, but ignores what God has said to others. Apparently people of this breed, actually hold themselves up as the final authority.

Personally, I read all of the commentaries I can. I am a weak wretch of a man, with a wicked heart and poor motives. But thank the Lord that he has seen fit to give us teachers, that help keep such things in check.

I wonder if some of the people in Corinth said "I don't care what the apostle Paul says. I feel God is leading me to..."

Havensdad, what about the authors of our scripture. Were they not led or inspired by the Holy Spirit?

Some would argue that those that penned the scriptures were basically dictated to by God. Others accept the influence and direction of the Holy Spirit while simultaneously acknowledging the human side as well. What say you?

This has often been a question of mine when churches make decisions about pastors, building projects etc. Most churches I have been a part of have special dedicated prayer times seeking the leading of God, inevitably some say God is leading me thusly, while others say no, God is leading me differently.

 

[quantumfaith]

Blasphemous? Boy, some folks throw that word around easily here.

2 Cor 11:But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The scriptures themselves speak of the "simplicity" that is in Christ" and warn us to beware of those who would corrupt our minds through subtilty.

So, you are insulted when average men can understand the scriptures? That is nothing new.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

The religious leaders in Jesus's day were offended when a simple carpenter taught the word of God. Nothing has changed today.

I agree in the strongest possible sense. We should ban the use of "blasphemous" and "heretic" with the exception that someone violates any "essential" of Christianity.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I agree in the strongest possible sense. We should ban the use of "blasphemous" and "heretic" with the exception that someone violates any "essential" of Christianity.

Dave,

Here I am in total concurrence with you....add apostate & reprobate to the mix & I'm completely there. One must remember that usage of these words generally comes outa ones mouth in heated debate and/or frustration. The brother or sister using it needs to be reprimanded & should apologize.

 

[luke1616]

Holy Spirit

The important thing is being baptized into the Holy Ghost with signs confirming. Anything else is less than what Jesus wants for us.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The important thing is being baptized into the Holy Ghost with signs confirming. Anything else is less than what Jesus wants for us.

Excuse me what do you mean by signs confirming....Im unclear.

 

[quantumfaith]

Dave,

Here I am in total concurrence with you....add apostate & reprobate to the mix & I'm completely there. One must remember that usage of these words generally comes outa ones mouth in heated debate and/or frustration. The brother or sister using it needs to be reprimanded & should apologize.

Thank you brother, you and I can demonstrate that two men on "different" sides of the theological aisle can still be cordial and respectful. Even when we disagree in the strongest possible way. Blessings.

 

[luke1616]

Excuse me what do you mean by signs confirming....Im unclear.

Like in the book of Acts. Like wherever a person preaches the gospel, miracles happen. You can bet that person has been baptized with the Spirit, God confirms it everytime. Anything else is just talk lol.:love2:

 

[TCassidy]

Excuse me what do you mean by signs confirming....Im unclear.

Charismatic confusion.

 

[luke1616]

Charismatic confusion.

True believer. Mark 16/John14/many more. If ya seen it, ya seen it! Yahoo! :jesus:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Like in the book of Acts. Like wherever a person preaches the gospel, miracles happen. You can bet that person has been baptized with the Spirit, God confirms it everytime. Anything else is just talk lol.:love2:

I would confirm it through Scripture since its written by the HS. Im not interested in quenching the HS, rather just confirming that it is actually Him doing the sign.

 

[luke1616]

I would confirm it through Scripture since its written by the HS. Im not interested in quenching the HS, rather just confirming that it is actually Him doing the sign.

When you watch a man have another man sit down in a chair, hold the man's leg, and command the leg to grow in Jesus' name, then it grows out 3 inches, you will be convinced.:jesus:

 

[Amy.G]

So then it is your contention that NOTHING in the Bible and theology is complex?

It is my contention that YOU make everything complicated. :laugh:

 

[preacher4truth]

When you watch a man have another man sit down in a chair, hold the man's leg, and command the leg to grow in Jesus' name, then it grows out 3 inches, you will be convinced.:jesus:

Convinced of what exactly?

Matthew 7:22?

It proves nada.

:thumbs: