Is theology SUPPOSED to be simple?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If you are trying to pick a fight here with baptists- I'll go a round with you. Start a thread, make your point and look for me.

I apologize if that is NOT what you are trying to do, but I cannot see how this post has ANYTHING to do with the op.

It seems meant to stir and antagonize folks who clearly do not ascribe to that pentecostal type language which is usually an abuse of Mark 16.

I antagonize easy- it is a weakness of mine. We've all got 'em.

Wow! Couldnt you have told him privately? Enough said.

 

[Luke2427]

Wow! Couldnt you have told him privately? Enough said.

He posted it publicly, Bud.

 

[SRBooe]

Anything and everything CAN BE MADE complicated.

Driving a car is simple. Ask any teenager with a license to drive and you'll hear about how easy it is. Then ask a traffic court lawyer how simple it is, and you'll hear a lot of buts, or's, and what if's.

Ask a pilot of an airplane how easy it is to takeoff and land, and he'll tell you that, once you get the hang of it, it is simple. Then, he can tell you the "but's" that involve windsheer, runway length, malfunctioning flaps, etc, etc.

Knowing the Bible's information about being born again is simple. After that, though, the Bible Lawyers get involved and "away we go."

Sadly, it is at this point that people quit reading their Bibles. They listen to their preacher and believe everything the preacher says, and they accept what they hear as being "the truth." The Bible just becomes something to hold while walking to and from the car.

As long as they never discuss Biblical issues outside of their congregation, there is no problem. However, if they ever discuss God, Salvation, and Christian behavior outside of church, that's when the trouble starts.

You preachers don't even agree on what the Bible says.

 

[preacher4truth]

You preachers don't even agree on what the Bible says.

Neither do you.

But most of the trouble is inability or refusal to see truth, proof texting, presuppositions, application versus true Biblical interpretation, and equating application as an interpretation, and plain wrong interpretation.

 

[kyredneck]

Theology has aspects that are simple and aspects that are incredibly complicated. Thats okay because it is the chief discipline of thought/thinking. Anyone who has studied a subject like the economic Trinity or the hyppstatic union will know theology's complexities well. Yet there are simple aspects.

We shouldnt let our historical proclivity towards anti-intellectualism get too far into this. Complicated doesnt mean disqualified anymore than simple means incomplete.

Good post. Thank you. [emphasis mine]

 

[Jerome]

In his sermon Our Lord’s Trial before the Sanhedrin, Charles Spurgeon noted that the difference between New Testament and "Reformation" preaching is that

the first fathers of the Church set forth the same Truths in a less theological fashion. If they dwell little upon Justification by Faith they were wonderfully full upon the blood and its cleansing power, the wounds and their healing efficacy, the death of Jesus and our eternal life. We will go back to their style for a while and preach the facts about our Lord Jesus Christ rather than the doctrinal inferences from them. Oh, that the Holy Spirit would so bring the sorrows of our Lord near to each heart, that every one of us may know the fellowship of His sufferings and possess faith in His salvation and reverent love for Him!

 

[quantumfaith]

Anything and everything CAN BE MADE complicated.

Driving a car is simple. Ask any teenager with a license to drive and you'll hear about how easy it is. Then ask a traffic court lawyer how simple it is, and you'll hear a lot of buts, or's, and what if's.

Ask a pilot of an airplane how easy it is to takeoff and land, and he'll tell you that, once you get the hang of it, it is simple. Then, he can tell you the "but's" that involve windsheer, runway length, malfunctioning flaps, etc, etc.

Knowing the Bible's information about being born again is simple. After that, though, the Bible Lawyers get involved and "away we go."

Sadly, it is at this point that people quit reading their Bibles. They listen to their preacher and believe everything the preacher says, and they accept what they hear as being "the truth." The Bible just becomes something to hold while walking to and from the car.

As long as they never discuss Biblical issues outside of their congregation, there is no problem. However, if they ever discuss God, Salvation, and Christian behavior outside of church, that's when the trouble starts.

You preachers don't even agree on what the Bible says.

Simple, elegant and unfortunately true.

 

[glfredrick]

Anything and everything CAN BE MADE complicated.

Driving a car is simple. Ask any teenager with a license to drive and you'll hear about how easy it is. Then ask a traffic court lawyer how simple it is, and you'll hear a lot of buts, or's, and what if's.

Ask a pilot of an airplane how easy it is to takeoff and land, and he'll tell you that, once you get the hang of it, it is simple. Then, he can tell you the "but's" that involve windsheer, runway length, malfunctioning flaps, etc, etc.

Knowing the Bible's information about being born again is simple. After that, though, the Bible Lawyers get involved and "away we go."

Sadly, it is at this point that people quit reading their Bibles. They listen to their preacher and believe everything the preacher says, and they accept what they hear as being "the truth." The Bible just becomes something to hold while walking to and from the car.

As long as they never discuss Biblical issues outside of their congregation, there is no problem. However, if they ever discuss God, Salvation, and Christian behavior outside of church, that's when the trouble starts.

You preachers don't even agree on what the Bible says.

Why?

Isn't your response somewhat begging the question? People actually "quit" with God because some theologians study the deeper things of God, extract doctrines and theologies from Scripture, etc.? Really?

I'm not trying to get down on you, but this just seems like a really weird thought to me. I'm trying to get my arms around it.

 

[MB]

Neither do you.

But most of the trouble is inability or refusal to see truth, proof texting, presuppositions, application versus true Biblical interpretation, and equating application as an interpretation, and plain wrong interpretation.

Theres a problem with biblical interpretation, unless you're using a Greek Bible. If it's in English then you don't need interpretation. Where men get into misunderstanding is when they try to reinterpret the Bible to say what they want it to, instead of what it actually says. We don't have to interpret a news paper unless it's in a foregin tongue. We read it and take it at it's face value. after all if you want to you can interpret an add to say just about anything you want it to but that will not make it true. We have a tool for understanding. I just don't understand why people will not use it. It's called prayer, and it better than any of mans logical ideas or interpretations. We shouldn't be afraid to ask God what he means by a passage. Those who have not, ask not.
MB

 

[Gershom]

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

The religious leaders in Jesus's day were offended when a simple carpenter taught the word of God. Nothing has changed today.

Amen to that. The religious leaders were also offended at the blind man when they perceived that he dared to teach them (John 9:34). Love that passage.

:jesus:

 

[Gershom]

...................

 

[glfredrick]

Theres a problem with biblical interpretation, unless you're using a Greek Bible. If it's in English then you don't need interpretation. Where men get into misunderstanding is when they try to reinterpret the Bible to say what they want it to, instead of what it actually says. We don't have to interpret a news paper unless it's in a foregoing tongue. We read it and take it at it's face value. after all if you want to you can interpret an add to say just about anything you want it to but that will not make it true. We have a tool for understanding. I just don't understand why people will not use it. It's called prayer, and it better than any of mans logical ideas or interpretations. We shouldn't be afraid to ask God what he means by a passage. Those who have not, ask not.
MB

There are rules of grammar for every language. Those rules dictate the way we read words and interpret them. We use subject/verb agreement, and each sentence has a structure, that properly diagrammed will give us the most accurate picture of the words presented.

I've found that these rules of grammar are not well known, either in English or in the Biblical languages. Instead, people do searches for "key words" then view those key words through their own worldview lens.

A proper study of the Scriptures, whether in English, the original languages, or any other language will necessarily involve the following of the rules of grammar, but if the student is unaware of these rules, or how to apply them, almost anything can (and is!) be said.

This entire issue becomes doubly important when delving into the original languages, because they are not our native tongue, and we often fail to grasp some of the differences in grammatical convention applied in the ancient world compared to our own time. For instance, in both Greek and Hebrew (and Aramaic) verbs often precede nouns. The action comes first, then the subject of that action.

If translated into English in exactly that form, it would be virtually un-readable for most (indeed, the ASV does just about that!). Texts would be in the nature of, "Praying, Paul was to God." which in English could be construed to mean several things. What the original language grammar conventions do show us, however, is which word (typically) the ancient writer thought most important, for that is generally close to the front of the sentence, giving the astute reader clues into the true mind of the writer.

 

[Don]

Brother Quantum made an interesting remark concerning theology and simplicity. It represents a sentiment that I have seen several others echo.

But I wonder if it is a good thing.

But many great theological and philosophical issues are NOT simple.

They are complex until you get them.

In Quantum's field there are equations that you CANNOT keep simple nor should you try. You should be honest and say- Now this is going to be difficult- it is complex- I will explain it to the best of my ability but you are going to struggle to get it at first.

This desire to keep everything in theology simple is not good and to pretend that it all should be is less than honest.

Now don't get me wrong- salvation is simple enough for a child to understand. But the implications of it baffle scholars.

Adrian Rogers said of the Word of God- "It is so wonderful that a small child can stoop and drink and not fear drowning; but it is so deep that the greatest scholars can dive in and never touch bottom."

Should we just avoid anything in the Bible that is complex at all? Is that a noble endeavor?

Should we embrace shallowness and never seek to know the DEEP things of God?

Should we treat the DEEP things of God as though they are not complex and as though they are easy to be understood?

I know that there are plenty of things about God we will NEVER understand- but aren't there things about God that he reveals to us that are VERY complex and that he wants us to seek to understand?

What do you think?

Can the child with mental retardation, whether slight or severe, ever truly understand the "deep" things of the Bible? Can the person standing next to you understand to the same level as you? Or you to him?

There is a reason why the passage from 1 Corinthians 12 was given to us as scripture: because we are not all the same. We do not all have the same gifts, we do not all have the same abilities, we do not all have the same capability for knowledge and/or understanding.

This same reason is reiterated in 1 Peter 4:11.

For that reason, Luke, your question is meaningless. Study to the point that you're satisfied...and be satisfied with the study that your neighbor is capable of, based on the ability that God gives to each of us.

 

[glfredrick]

Can the child with mental retardation, whether slight or severe, ever truly understand the "deep" things of the Bible? Can the person standing next to you understand to the same level as you? Or you to him?

There is a reason why the passage from 1 Corinthians 12 was given to us as scripture: because we are not all the same. We do not all have the same gifts, we do not all have the same abilities, we do not all have the same capability for knowledge and/or understanding.

This same reason is reiterated in 1 Peter 4:11.

For that reason, Luke, your question is meaningless. Study to the point that you're satisfied...and be satisfied with the study that your neighbor is capable of, based on the ability that God gives to each of us.

Simple, but not simplistic... I said that above, about 3 pages ago.

 

[MB]

There are rules of grammar for every language. Those rules dictate the way we read words and interpret them. We use subject/verb agreement, and each sentence has a structure, that properly diagrammed will give us the most accurate picture of the words presented.

I've found that these rules of grammar are not well known, either in English or in the Biblical languages. Instead, people do searches for "key words" then view those key words through their own worldview lens.

A proper study of the Scriptures, whether in English, the original languages, or any other language will necessarily involve the following of the rules of grammar, but if the student is unaware of these rules, or how to apply them, almost anything can (and is!) be said.
This entire issue becomes doubly important when delving into the original languages, because they are not our native tongue, and we often fail to grasp some of the differences in grammatical convention applied in the ancient world compared to our own time. For instance, in both Greek and Hebrew (and Aramaic) verbs often precede nouns. The action comes first, then the subject of that action.

If translated into English in exactly that form, it would be virtually un-readable for most (indeed, the ASV does just about that!). Texts would be in the nature of, "Praying, Paul was to God." which in English could be construed to mean several things. What the original language grammar conventions do show us, however, is which word (typically) the ancient writer thought most important, for that is generally close to the front of the sentence, giving the astute reader clues into the true mind of the writer.

I make no claims to be so educated on Biblical Greek or it's grammar. It really isn't the subject here.
You see Even if the Bible were only writen in Greek I still have God to explain it to me. This is the simplicity of understanding God's word, no matter what version you use. God can and will reveal the truth to us.
MB

 

[glfredrick]

I make no claims to be so educated on Biblical Greek or it's grammar. It really isn't the subject here.
You see Even if the Bible were only writen in Greek I still have God to explain it to me. This is the simplicity of understanding God's word, no matter what version you use. God can and will reveal the truth to us.
MB

Okay, I'll bite...

How does God explain Scripture to you? (Not saying that He doesn't, just want to know how.)

I often hear this, but so far no one has been able to give me a decent answer.

 

[MB]

Okay, I'll bite...

How does God explain Scripture to you? (Not saying that He doesn't, just want to know how.)

I often hear this, but so far no one has been able to give me a decent answer.

I can understand that it's difficult to explain. I'll do my best for you.

It's like how you know you're saved and when you're not. You recognize it. The answer is already inside of you, you just need to access it by recognition. That recognition can be given to us from God.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Literaly we are with out excuse for not knowing it, Because the truth of it all is written on our hearts. We are physcially born with it inside of us other wise the unrighteous people Paul is writting about here couldn't have known these things. Romans 1:18. The part I like best is we are all unrighteous to begin with.

 

[glfredrick]

I can understand that it's difficult to explain. I'll do my best for you.

It's like how you know you're saved and when you're not. You recognize it. The answer is already inside of you, you just need to access it by recognition. That recognition can be given to us from God.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Literaly we are with out excuse for not knowing it, Because the truth of it all is written on our hearts. We are physcially born with it inside of us other wise the unrighteous people Paul is writting about here couldn't have known these things. Romans 1:18. The part I like best is we are all unrighteous to begin with.

Then, you would realize that those words were written about lost sinners, right?

I'm still trying to get a handle on how it is that God tells you stuff. I read the Word, we all do (at least I hope!). I received the Holy Spirit when I was born again, but I find in the Word that we are commanded by God to "study."

Do you not have to?

 

[Havensdad]

I make no claims to be so educated on Biblical Greek or it's grammar. It really isn't the subject here.
You see Even if the Bible were only writen in Greek I still have God to explain it to me. This is the simplicity of understanding God's word, no matter what version you use. God can and will reveal the truth to us.
MB

Again, I consider this arrogance. "God, I know your word says that you gave us teachers for our understanding, but I think I know better than you."

The scriptures tell us how we know we are saved. And it is not just some "feeling" (that's just lunch not agreeing with you...). We know it, by examining ourselves. Many Jesus confessing individuals will be utterly surprised at his return, believing themselves to be saved, when they are not. You cannot trust your feelings, and you cannot trust your heart.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[quantumfaith]

Again, I consider this arrogance. "God, I know your word says that you gave us teachers for our understanding, but I think I know better than you."

The scriptures tell us how we know we are saved. And it is not just some "feeling" (that's just lunch not agreeing with you...). We know it, by examining ourselves. Many Jesus confessing individuals will be utterly surprised at his return, believing themselves to be saved, when they are not. You cannot trust your feelings, and you cannot trust your heart.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Where was this stated?