Is There Such A Thing As A Just War?

[OldRegular]

So you would argue that Christians in Nazi Germany were compelled by their faith to shove the Jews into the ovens? I think not.

You really need some new glasses JC. I said:

It would appear from above that whether the Christian considers a war just or unjust he is obligated to defend his country if required. That is, no draft dodgers!

 

[OldRegular]

So you would argue that Christians in Nazi Germany were compelled by their faith to shove the Jews into the ovens? I think not.

JC: People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. You support a man who not only favors the slaughter of unborn children but the murder of just born children.

What faith justifies such belief and the support of such belief?

Scripture tells us:

Proverbs 6:16-19
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

What could be more innocent than the blood of unborn children? You tell me.

Scripture also tells us:

Romans 1:28-32
28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29. Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30. Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31. Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[OldRegular]

Incidently, on February 17, 2009, President Obama deployed 17,000 additional troops to Afghanistan.

But I suppose anyone who voted for him considers that to be "just".

I don't think he sent 17,000 armed troops there to teach Sunday School.

HankD

Since his inauguration O'bama has also restarted the democrat policy of funding the slaughter of innocent children in foreign countries.

 

[JustChristian]

JC: People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. You support a man who not only favors the slaughter of unborn children but the murder of just born children.

What faith justifies such belief and the support of such belief?

Scripture tells us:

Proverbs 6:16-19
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

What could be more innocent than the blood of unborn children? You tell me.

Scripture also tells us:

Romans 1:28-32
28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29. Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30. Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31. Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Abortion has nothing to do with this thread. You are off the subject and not relevant as usual.

 

[matt wade]

It would appear from above that whether the Christian considers a war just or unjust he is obligated to defend his country if required. That is, no draft dodgers!

OldRegular, if Obama decided that we should invade Israel because he sided with Hamas, you are saying that Christians should fight that war?

 

[Andy T.]

You haven't quoted scripture to support your position. I did. Your turn.

Romans 13:4.

God clearly gives the power of the sword to the governing authorities. I assume you think it is a sin for a Christian to be a police officer, since they bear the sword not in vain - i.e., they have to use it sometimes to kill or hurt evil doers. Is that the case? Are you consistent by telling your Christian friends who are in law enforcement or in the military to repent from their sinful lifestyle and quit their jobs?

Now I do not promote a lawless vigilantism, but there is a long-standing doctrine (and even law) of citizen's arrest and/or self-defense. The scenario of taking out a killer is something most of us will never have to face. And there is also the means to do it - if you do not have the means to take a killer out, then it is best to just call the police. But if the police come and take the killer out, then under your thinking the person who called the police is also an accomplice to the murder. In fact, we are all accomplices, since we pay taxes to support those police.

 

[Don]

OldRegular, if Obama decided that we should invade Israel because he sided with Hamas, you are saying that Christians should fight that war?

I'll be the first to say, based on the current intelligence available, that would be an unjust war, and I would not participate.

 

[matt wade]

I'll be the first to say, based on the current intelligence available, that would be an unjust war, and I would not participate.

I agree with you, but OldRegular does not. He has said, "whether the Christian considers a war just or unjust he is obligated to defend his country".

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by OldRegular
It would appear from above that whether the Christian considers a war just or unjust he is obligated to defend his country if required. That is, no draft dodgers!

OldRegular, if Obama decided that we should invade Israel because he sided with Hamas, you are saying that Christians should fight that war?

Please read what I say before jumping to conclusions like JC does.

Anyhow I suspect there are enough O'bamamites around eager to do his bidding.

 

[OldRegular]

Abortion has nothing to do with this thread. You are off the subject and not relevant as usual.

You are the one who went off topic by dragging in the Holocaust. WWII was not fought because of the Nazi treatment of Jews.

In any event the words of Scripture are true and are directly applicable to those who murder the unborn: Romans 1:31b, 32. without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[matt wade]

Please read what I say before jumping to conclusions like JC does.

Anyhow I suspect there are enough O'bamamites around eager to do his bidding.

Why don't you just answer the question? If Obama decided that we should invade Israel because he sided with Hamas, you are saying that Christians should fight that war?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by OldRegular
Please read what I say before jumping to conclusions like JC does.

Anyhow I suspect there are enough O'bamamites around eager to do his bidding.

Retort Posted by matt wade
Why don't you just answer the question? If Obama decided that we should invade Israel because he sided with Hamas, you are saying that Christians should fight that war?

One more opportunity to read what I said. I have even bolded and underlined the pertinent part.

Originally Posted by OldRegular
It would appear from above that whether the Christian considers a war just or unjust he is obligated to defend his country if required. That is, no draft dodgers!

 

[matt wade]

One more opportunity to read what I said. I have even bolded and underlined the pertinent part.

OK. Well, then I read that as you answering the questions as "Yes, the Christian should fight that war."

 

[JustChristian]

While I agree with you that shoving anyone into an oven or gas chamber in the fashion that the Nazis did to the Jews is immoral and should be an order that should be defied, I guess the question there would be: What do you think about U.S. military men and women who are participating in Iraq and Iran today who believe they are following (compelled by) their faith?

Everyone has to work out their oun faith with fear and trembling. Baptists believe in the Priesthood of all Believers. If that's their heart felt belief then then should follow it. Neither I or anyone else has the right to say that they're wrong in doing so. By the same token no one has the right to reject my own belief which is most wars are immoral and are in the same category as abortion in terms of killing innocent life. God thinks all human life is precious. I believe we need to apply that in all of life's situations not just one.

 

[JustChristian]

Genesis 9 and Romans 13 taken together show that governments are allowed to take vengeance upon evil doers.

God is the ultimate judge of those in authority who initiate war.

I am convinced that our government acted righteously by shedding the blood of Sadam Hussein and his sons. They had shed much innocent blood.

Unfortunately they had at least six months of "negotiatons" (Actually thumbing their noses at us) in which to remove the instruments of mass destruction from the land before we could go in and inspect.

Yes, the innocent often times die in war and indeed war is hell.

One day Jesus will come in His glory and put all such shedders of innocent blood where they belong - the Lake of Fire.
He will judge which wars were just and which were not.

In the mean time we have the right to defend ourselves from all enemies both foreign and domestic.
A right given by God in Genesis 9 and Romans 13 neither of which have been rescinded at the level of government.


HankD

In your opinion, has the U.S. ever fought an immoral war? If not, why are we perfect while other nations do get involved in unjust wars? Or do you believe that ALL wars are just?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by OldRegular
One more opportunity to read what I said. I have even bolded and underlined the pertinent part.

Retort bby matt wade
OK. Well, then I read that as you answering the questions as "Yes, the Christian should fight that war."

Perhaps you can understand this. If Israel, or any other country, invades the United States then I believe we should fight to defend it. Can you understand now?

 

[matt wade]

Perhaps you can understand this. If Israel, or any other country, invades the United States then I believe we should fight to defend it. Can you understand now?

OK, so you only believe that a Christian has to defend their country, not go to another country and fight a war? See how much easier it is when you actually answer a question rather than trying to be smart about it?

Here's another question for you then. When the US invaded Afghanistan, should the Christians in that country fought in a war against the US?

(yes, OldRegular, there are Christians in Afghanistan)

 

[OldRegular]

By the same token no one has the right to reject my own belief which is most wars are immoral and are in the same category as abortion in terms of killing innocent life. God thinks all human life is precious. I believe we need to apply that in all of life's situations not just one.

To equate the killing that occurs in war, just or unjust, with abortion is asinine. Abortion slaughters a totally innocent human being. War does not.

 

[JustChristian]

Incidently, on February 17, 2009, President Obama deployed 17,000 additional troops to Afghanistan.

But I suppose anyone who voted for him considers that to be "just".

I don't think he sent 17,000 armed troops there to teach Sunday School.

HankD

If you accept the fact that bin Laden was behind 9/11 then it was reasonable for us to go after him in Afghanistan. There is a reason for the war in Afghanistan unlike Iraq. However, after George Bush said that he was no longer interested in capturing bin Laden I began to wonder. Then when I found out that the FBI most wanted poster for bin Laden doesn't accuse him of anything related to 9/11 (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm) and when I saw an article in which the FBI said that was because we didn't have any proof against him for 9/11 I began to wonder.

What does it mean that we have no evidence against bin Laden for 9/11? I believe we've never gotten to the bottom of exactly what happened on that day. I think George Bush and Dick Cheney know the answer but I'm not certain Obama has been informed. So he's acting on what seems to be obvious, that bin Laden was responsible for 9/11 while I'm not so certain. If he was responsible why don't we have enough proof to charge him of a crime?


These are the charges against bin Laden on the official FBI web site:

Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.

 

[OldRegular]

OK, so you only believe that a Christian has to defend their country, not go to another country and fight a war? See how much easier it is when you actually answer a question rather than trying to be smart about it?

Again you twist my words. I did not say that a Christian shouldn't go to another country to fight. We had to go to Germany and Japanese territories to defend our country in WWII. JC presented an asinine scenario and you picked up on it.

Here's another question for you then. When the US invaded Afghanistan, should the Christians in that country fought in a war against the US?

(yes, OldRegular, there are Christians in Afghanistan)

There is a Christian community in Iraq, I doubt the Taliban would have allowed any in Afghanistan. If you have evidence to the contrary provide it.