Is There Such A Thing As A Just War?

[OldRegular]

I think George Bush and Dick Cheney know the answer but I'm not certain Obama has been informed. So he's acting on what seems to be obvious, that bin Laden was responsible for 9/11 while I'm not so certain. If he was responsible why don't we have enough proof to charge him of a crime?

JC you are unreal!:tonofbricks: :tonofbricks: :tonofbricks: :tonofbricks:

 

[matt wade]

There is a Christian community in Iraq, I doubt the Taliban would have allowed any in Afghanistan. If you have evidence to the contrary provide it.

Once again you avoid the question. Since you like bolding things, let me do that for you. Here's another question for you then. When the US invaded Afghanistan, should the Christians in that country fought in a war against the US?


Oh, here's a story of an Afghan Christian. Will you tell me he is the only one?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,408781,00.html

 

[JustChristian]

JC you are unreal!:tonofbricks: :tonofbricks: :tonofbricks: :tonofbricks:

Why hasn't bin Laden been charged with a crime for 9/11? Can you answer that question?

 

[blackbird]

Why hasn't bin Laden been charged with a crime for 9/11? Can you answer that question?

You can't charge the freak until you catch the freak!!!

 

[Andy T.]

Everyone has to work out their oun faith with fear and trembling. Baptists believe in the Priesthood of all Believers. If that's their heart felt belief then then should follow it. Neither I or anyone else has the right to say that they're wrong in doing so.

So you think the "Priesthood of Believers" allows someone to participate in murder? Because that's what you accused America soldiers of doing in Iraq. Now all of a sudden you think it's ok as long as they have a "heart felt belief" that what they are doing is right? Talk about secular humanist relativism at its worst. Man up and stick with your argument and call these murderers out - tell them all to repent, esp. the ones you know personally. Or is the fact that you have clearly lost the argument causing you to backtrack like this?

 

[HankD]

In your opinion, has the U.S. ever fought an immoral war? If not, why are we perfect while other nations do get involved in unjust wars? Or do you believe that ALL wars are just?

Of course America is not perfect. No nation just as no human individual (apart from Christ) is perfect.

That question sidesteps the issue JC.

Morally speaking, each nation is the sum total of the citizens moral venue which make up their nation and their government.

American citizens are especially answerable to God for their government because our government is "of the people, by the people and for the people".

This is the issue:
The wilfull shedding of innocent blood is especially condemned in the Scripture and MUST be vindicated.

Some say that abortion is irrelevant to this thread; however it is not in that it is a true war, an UNJUST war on a defenseless people.

They have no one to protect them, not this administration (one of whom is Catholic), not the senate, not the congress or the judicial branch.

Only the few with our prayers, our votes and our dollars to educate the ignorant and influence the mothers who wish to terminate the life within their womb.

I suppose one could say that since they have not yet been born they are not yet citizens of this nation.

How far has our judicial branch sunk to have approved this massacre.

Abortion takes away every unalienable right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

This our Supreme Court "legislated".

Unintended “collateral damage” is one thing, but the “legalized” willful destruction of defenseless human life for convenience sake is another.

Now our new President has show that he is indeed willing to make war (innocent people will die as a result) in the deployment on February 17th.

In this case I believe he did what he must in that the Taliban has been gaining strength and popularity (but of course I wish there to be no "colateral damage").

I pray for our president , that the light from above illuminate his heart and mind (with God all things are possible), and yes for his protection because he is our president.


I also pray for his beautiful family.

What a great man he could become if he would just do the right thing.


Psalm 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.


HankD

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by OldRegular
There is a Christian community in Iraq, I doubt the Taliban would have allowed any in Afghanistan. If you have evidence to the contrary provide it.

Retort Posted by matt wade
Once again you avoid the question. Since you like bolding things, let me do that for you. Here's another question for you then. When the US invaded Afghanistan, should the Christians in that country fought in a war against the US?


Oh, here's a story of an Afghan Christian. Will you tell me he is the only one?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...408781,00.html

I just say praise the Lord that He has brought another of His elect to salvation.

 

[OldRegular]

Hank D

Thanks for a great post that should be enlightening to some on this Forum.

OldRegular

 

[JustChristian]

You can't charge the freak until you catch the freak!!!

The FBI charged "the freak" with the 1998 bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. Clearly your argument does not hold water.

 

[OldRegular]

Why hasn't bin Laden been charged with a crime for 9/11? Can you answer that question?

So we catch him, bring him to America, take him before a judge along with his dozen ACLU lawyers, including Ramsey Clark, paid for by the American taxpayer, all under the new policy established by your hero. Great!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[JustChristian]

Of course America is not perfect. No nation just as no human individual (apart from Christ) is perfect.

That question sidesteps the issue JC.

Morally speaking, each nation is the sum total of the citizens moral venue which make up their nation and their government.

American citizens are especially answerable to God for their government because our government is "of the people, by the people and for the people".

This is the issue:
The wilfull shedding of innocent blood is especially condemned in the Scripture and MUST be vindicated.

Some say that abortion is irrelevant to this thread; however it is not in that it is a true war, an UNJUST war on a defenseless people.

They have no one to protect them, not this administration (one of whom is Catholic), not the senate, not the congress or the judicial branch.

Only the few with our prayers, our votes and our dollars to educate the ignorant and influence the mothers who wish to terminate the life within their womb.

I suppose one could say that since they have not yet been born they are not yet citizens of this nation.

How far has our judicial branch sunk to have approved this massacre.

Abortion takes away every unalienable right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

This our Supreme Court "legislated".

Unintended “collateral damage” is one thing, but the “legalized” willful destruction of defenseless human life for convenience sake is another.

Now our new President has show that he is indeed willing to make war (innocent people will die as a result) in the deployment on February 17th.

In this case I believe he did what he must in that the Taliban has been gaining strength and popularity (but of course I wish there to be no "colateral damage").

I pray for our president , that the light from above illuminate his heart and mind (with God all things are possible), and yes for his protection because he is our president.


I also pray for his beautiful family.

What a great man he could become if he would just do the right thing.


Psalm 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.


HankD

As people say to me so often, you are completely off topic. The subject is just war not abortion. BTW, we're in agreement about abortion. There is no argument. I'm making the point that there is more to the Biblical concept of the sanctity of life than abortion.

 

[OldRegular]

As people say to me so often, you are completely off topic. The subject is just war not abortion. BTW, we're in agreement about abortion. There is no argument. I'm making the point that there is more to the Biblical concept of the sanctity of life than abortion.

JC

You are just "shucking and jiving" trying to cover for your "dear leader".

 

[matt wade]

I just say praise the Lord that He has brought another of His elect to salvation.

Talk about "shucking and jiving"!

Once again, how about actually answering the question OldRegular. I've bolded it again so that you can see it clearly. When the US invaded Afghanistan, should the Christians in that country fought in a war against the US?

 

[JustChristian]

Of course America is not perfect. No nation just as no human individual (apart from Christ) is perfect.

That question sidesteps the issue JC.

Morally speaking, each nation is the sum total of the citizens moral venue which make up their nation and their government.

American citizens are especially answerable to God for their government because our government is "of the people, by the people and for the people".

This is the issue:
The wilfull shedding of innocent blood is especially condemned in the Scripture and MUST be vindicated.

Some say that abortion is irrelevant to this thread; however it is not in that it is a true war, an UNJUST war on a defenseless people.

They have no one to protect them, not this administration (one of whom is Catholic), not the senate, not the congress or the judicial branch.

Only the few with our prayers, our votes and our dollars to educate the ignorant and influence the mothers who wish to terminate the life within their womb.

I suppose one could say that since they have not yet been born they are not yet citizens of this nation.

How far has our judicial branch sunk to have approved this massacre.

Abortion takes away every unalienable right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

This our Supreme Court "legislated".

Unintended “collateral damage” is one thing, but the “legalized” willful destruction of defenseless human life for convenience sake is another.

Now our new President has show that he is indeed willing to make war (innocent people will die as a result) in the deployment on February 17th.

In this case I believe he did what he must in that the Taliban has been gaining strength and popularity (but of course I wish there to be no "colateral damage").

I pray for our president , that the light from above illuminate his heart and mind (with God all things are possible), and yes for his protection because he is our president.


I also pray for his beautiful family.

What a great man he could become if he would just do the right thing.


Psalm 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.


HankD

No, the issue is not whether America is perfect although it's refreshing for someone here to admit that. The issue is whether America has fought in unjust wars. If so, which ones. I say Viet Nam and the invasion of Iraq fit into this category. What do you say?

 

[Don]

Why was Viet Nam an unjust war?

 

[HankD]

No, the issue is not whether America is perfect although it's refreshing for someone here to admit that. The issue is whether America has fought in unjust wars. If so, which ones. I say Viet Nam and the invasion of Iraq fit into this category. What do you say?

The only war that America has ever fought that I consider "unjust" is the Civil War. Brother killing brother.

There should have been a better way to end slavery.

Both the the VC war (I am a Vietnam Era Veteran) and the war against that murderer Saddam Hussein and his rapist/sadist sons were both just wars. They are now reaping their "reward".

How would you like to be run through a giant paper shredder?
Or have your family gassed to death.
These were no mistakes or unintentional

My cousin was a bombadier pilot in the Vietnam war.

Civilian targets were NEVER chosen, only VC strongholds, ammo dumps, etc.

Were mistakes made, yes but they were unintentional.
Many Vietnam vets suffered horrible guilt from these mistakes.

Vietnam started out as a just war against godless, murderous communism but ended up as a debacle under the Johnson Administration.

We should have been allowed to bomb at will and not where the VC infiltrated South Vietnam legitimate government dictated.

Also:
Don't kid yourself JC, abortion is a war that God is keenly aware of as the prayers of the saints go up to heaven to seek retribution of their innocent blood.

Definition(s) of "war":

1 a (1): a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2): a period of such armed conflict (3) the art or science of warfare c (1)obsolete : weapons and equipment for war (2)archaic : soldiers armed and equipped for war2 a: a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b: a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end

Found on line in the public domain at:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war

There is a state of war against the human race and Satan's kingdom because he was not given what we have: Having been created in the image and likeness of God.

Our destruction is his goal because God loves us (remember John 3:16?).

He hates both God and the human race and wants our annihilation and for us (or as many as possible) to suffer with him eternally.

Apparently the left side of our political plane agrees with him in this destruction. Abortion being the fruit of the corrupt tree.

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.​

I once read a lecture from an early church father (I forget which one).

He said that he didn't know what to call abortion because "murder" was too good a name for it.

The war against abortion is a just war and therefore it is NOT off subject.

HankD

 

[HankD]

When the US invaded Afghanistan, should the Christians in that country fought in a war against the US?

Yes, unfortunately they (Afghans) were innocent victims of a corrupt government.

Just as American and German Christians in WWII killed each other, God will sort out the "just" souls from the "unjust".

HankD

 

[matt wade]

Yes, unfortunately they were innocent victims of a corrupt government.

Just as American and German Christians in WWII killed each other, God will sort out the "just" souls from the "unjust".

HankD

So you believe that, as a Christian, if you believe that your country is starting an unjust war that you should fight in it anyway?

I'm sorry, but once a person determines that a war is not just, they are no longer "innocent victims" if they fight in that war. They are fighting for an evil cause with full knowledge that they are doing so.

You bring up WWII and German Christians. Would it have been ok for a German Christian to place people into gas chambers if so ordered by a superior?

 

[JustChristian]

The only war that America has ever fought that I consider "unjust" is the Civil War. Brother killing brother.

There should have been a better way to end slavery.

Both the the VC war (I am a Vietnam Era Veteran) and the war against that murderer Saddam Hussein and his rapist/sadist sons were both just wars. They are now reaping their "reward".

How would you like to be run through a giant paper shredder?
Or have your family gassed to death.
These were no mistakes or unintentional

My cousin was a bombadier pilot in the Vietnam war.

Civilian targets were NEVER chosen, only VC strongholds, ammo dumps, etc.

Were mistakes made, yes but they were unintentional.
Many Vietnam vets suffered horrible guilt from these mistakes.

Vietnam started out as a just war against godless, murderous communism but ended up as a debacle under the Johnson Administration.

We should have been allowed to bomb at will and not where the VC infiltrated South Vietnam legitimate government dictated.

Also:
Don't kid yourself JC, abortion is a war that God is keenly aware of as the prayers of the saints go up to heaven to seek retribution of their innocent blood.

Definition(s) of "war":

1 a (1): a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2): a period of such armed conflict (3) the art or science of warfare c (1)obsolete : weapons and equipment for war (2)archaic : soldiers armed and equipped for war2 a: a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b: a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end

Found on line in the public domain at:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war

There is a state of war against the human race and Satan's kingdom because he was not given what we have: Having been created in the image and likeness of God.

Our destruction is his goal because God loves us (remember John 3:16?).

He hates both God and the human race and wants our annihilation and for us (or as many as possible) to suffer with him eternally.

Apparently the left side of our political plane agrees with him in this destruction. Abortion being the fruit of the corrupt tree.

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.​

I once read a lecture from an early church father (I forget which one).

He said that he didn't know what to call abortion because "murder" was too good a name for it.

The war against abortion is a just war and therefore it is NOT off subject.

HankD

Come on. Abortion is a terrible scourge but it's not a war. Also, grouping everyone who doesn't agree with everything you say into supporters of Satan is not only ridiculous but terrifically unChristian. If you chose to go to Viet Nam I respect that. I expect people to view my attitude towards that war with respect as well.

 

[HankD]

Look,

Obviously when the time comes to obey God rather than man I would obey God.

But let it be known, as old as I am, I would still go and defend the lives of American citizens if called upon by my government to fight a just war such as Vietnam and our present war on radical Islam.

You can create all the scenarios you want, but to fight the present here-and-now terrorism of radical Islam is a just war.

To fight the spread of godless murderous communism is a just war.
Remember Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge massacre of 2,000,000 innocents?

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By 1975, the U.S. had withdrawn its troops from Vietnam. Cambodia's government, plagued by corruption and incompetence, also lost its American military support. Taking advantage of the opportunity, Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge army, consisting of teenage peasant guerrillas, marched into Phnom Penh and on April 17 effectively seized control of Cambodia.[/FONT]

http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Genocide/pol_pot.htm

This slaughter followed directly after we pulled out of Vietnam.
IMO, the peaceniks which demonstrated against the Vietnam war are partially responsible for the blood of these people and the demonstration of this godless and satanic blood lust.

Had we stayed in Vietnam and been allowed to fight the war in the manner in which these murderers deserved, the spread of communism to Cambodia would have certainly been squelched.

Once we left they were free to reap satan's harvest.

Our current president proved on February 17th, 2009 that he will support the war against the terrorism of radical Islam.
At least he has that to his credit.

Radical Islam which says strap a bomb on yourself, set it off and murder as many people as you can: men, women and children. Even other Moslems in the name of their deity.

Usually in a place where they know more innocents will be killed than military.

Where is your outrage for those acts resulting in "collateral damage"?



HankD