Is your church or pastor on the list?

[Brother Bob]

I have noticed Christ is always last in "turn from your sin" theology. Christ must have first-place.

You must be looking with a blind eye then, for I have posted, preached and said, that you must believe, repent and be baptized by the Holy Ghost.,

Believe in who?
Jesus Christ.

Why would anyone repent if they did not believe in Christ and a better life in Heaven?????

 

[carrierwave~]

A change of mind will result in a change of behavior. When the mind is changed, behavior is changed! What we believe is what determines how we behave, and how we behave indicates what we truly believe. If I believe that the wrath of God awaits me, and that I am a vile sinner doomed for hell, it will show itself by contrition, sorrow, fear. If I believe that Christ saved me from that wrath, it will produce a thankfulness and relief, an appreciation for God's grace revealed in Christ.

Another great article that I have found in times past, written by David Cloud, shows the origins and the error of 'quick prayerism' and 'easy believism'. This article traces historic, Independent Fundamental Baptist doctrine on this issue. It's a bit exhaustive, but it's a great article.

The full title of the article : [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]FUNDAMENTAL BAPTISTS AND QUICK PRAYERISM: A FAULTY METHOD OF EVANGELISM HAS PRODUCED A CHANGE IN THE DOCTRINE OF REPENTANCE

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fundamentalbaptists.htm[/FONT]

I would like to add, nrpetrely, I am really suprised at your stance on this issue. We must recognize that repentance of sin is NOT work based, because God is the one who grants the power and changes our hearts so we WANT to give up sin. We have a new heart, we become quickened, and suddenly the sin which we once loved looses its attraction, and it's power over our life subsides. Also, Regeneration must factor into this equation. When we become regenerate, repentance is inevitable, for as Ezek 36 says(prophecy for the new covenant), we receive a new heart that is no longer opposed to God. Now we have the Holy SPirit, which makes us a new creature, and new creatures do new things.

The point is, the Gospel is a scandal and got all of the disciples killed(except John). Preaching entire repentance and forsaking of sin, like orthodox evangelical preachers have done throughout history, will result in intense persecution from the complacent church of America. Why are people not being saved in our churches? Let me rephrase it for those who insist that we cannot judge salvation, why are our converts not showing the fruits of salvation? Because we preach a heretical doctrine that says Jesus can be your Savior while Satan is your Lord. You can be a beleiver and persist in sin, say a prayer, give mental assent to him dying for you, and you will be adopted into his family.

Hello,

I will have to say the same as I said to Bob:

No, repentance "change your mind" leads to SALVATION in Christ, then comes the change.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature; old things are passed away, behold all things are become new." (II Cor. 5:17)

This has always been the Bible pattern; SALVATION then new life. A personal pre-sanctification qualifying you by works is never mentioned.

I have noticed Christ is always last in "turn from your sin" theology. Christ must have first-place.

I have not found to be true that converts don't follow through. God has been good, I have several attending in church and 3 to be baptized this next Sunday. They are not perfect as I am not perfect. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. There is the doctrine of salvation but there is also the doctrine of "surrender" Romans 12:1,2. Spiritual growth takes time and God working in the heart.

Carrierwave~

 

[carrierwave~]

You must be looking with a blind eye then, for I have posted, preached and said, that you must believe, repent and be baptized by the Holy Ghost.,

Believe in who?
Jesus Christ.

Why would anyone repent if they did not believe in Christ and a better life in Heaven?????

Bob,

You are in denial; you have been saying "repent" then believe on Christ. According to you, you have to "stop sinning" first right? Or do I have to go back and copy/paste your statements?

Carrierwave~

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob,

You are in denial; you have been saying "repent" then believe on Christ. According to you, you have to "stop sinning" first right? Or do I have to go back and copy/paste your statements?

Carrierwave~

You speak as a foolish man now. Repent is to turn from your sins, how can you turn from sin and still sin?? Do you believe in the Westminster Confession of Faith??? Or do you only believe in yourself???


What is repentance? Let me read to you from the Westminster Confession of Faith, a document that comes to us from the seventeenth century: "By [repentance] a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature and righteous law of God; and upon the apprehension of his mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavoring to walk with him in all the ways of his commandments. . . yet [repentance] is of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it. As there is no sin so small that it deserves damnation; so there is no sin so great that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly" (Westminster Confession of Faith, chapter XV, sections II, III, IV).

BBob,

 

[carrierwave~]

You speak as a foolish man now. Repent is to turn from your sins, how can you turn from sin and still sin?? Do you believe in the Westminster Confession of Faith??? Or do you only believe in yourself???


What is repentance? Let me read to you from the Westminster Confession of Faith, a document that comes to us from the seventeenth century: "By [repentance] a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature and righteous law of God; and upon the apprehension of his mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavoring to walk with him in all the ways of his commandments. . . yet [repentance] is of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it. As there is no sin so small that it deserves damnation; so there is no sin so great that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly" (Westminster Confession of Faith, chapter XV, sections II, III, IV).

BBob,

Can you still be a sinner and be saved?

 

[Brother Bob]

BBob,
post #148
I have to go to church and preach that men and women must believe, repent and be baptized, so they can have a home in heaven. Will check the board this evening, have a nice day.

I went back and got my own post to show you what I said way back in this thread about repentance, so don't put words in my mouth.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Can you still be a sinner and be saved?

Depends on what you talking about when you say sinner. If you mean adultery, killing etc, NO
If you mean bad thought, speak when you should be listening, anger, sins that are not unto death, YES

BBob,

Bedtime........:sleeping_2:

I will check the board tomorrow, if you are going to ask me now if I lie, the answer is NO!

All liars will have their part in the LOF.

 

[EdSutton]

You say repentance of sins is works based Salvation. I say it isn't. For if one wants to continue in the same sin... say for the sake of argumentation, as Bob says 'adultery', a person who says I will place my faith in Christ, but I have to hurry because I have my girlfriend waiting for me' will not be heard by Christ. His heart is not on the Lord, it is on sin.

If the sin is in his thinking and he does not want to walk away from it, his cry for Salvation will not be heard no matter how many tears.

Repentance from sins is not works based. For one cannot come to Christ whille holding onto the devil and refusing to let go. Christ does the work, not man when it comes to Salvation, but man must be repentive of his sin that doth so easily beset him, else he will not be saved.

Uh- what exactly does 'being in a hurry' have at all to do with salvation which is the gift of God? I thought "placing ones faith in Christ" brings salvation, then and there. Doesn't the Bible you are using say these things? Mine (NKJV) does. (Don't worry, Brother Bob. I'm gonna get back to you once my headache "SOTP"s, as rbell's picture shows. :BangHead: :BangHead:
Now let's check those verses. (My emphases.)

8 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived. (Num. 21:8-9)

Then and now, with no delay, - get it?

22 “ Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other. (Isa. 45:22)

No delay or long time involved here, that I can see. "Look... and be saved." This, BTW, was the text an uneducated Primitive Methodist layman "spun" around, when he filled in during a severe snowstorm, when the weather was so bad that even the preacher didn't make it to church, but young Charlie did. Charlie got saved, that day, you know. I'm sure most of you have heard of Charlie, although you have probably known him as Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

1 We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain. 2 For He says:

“ In an acceptable time I have heard you,
And in the day of salvation I have helped you.”[a]
Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. (II Cor. 6:1-2)

When exactly is supposed to be "now"? I thought that word meant "now", not later!

25 Now as he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, “Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you.” (Ac. 24:25)

I'd say "putting it off" is a good way to remain unsaved, and be forever lost, ya' think?

Ed
​

 

[Brother Bob]

I'd say "putting it off" is a good way to remain unsaved, and be forecer lost, ya' think?

Ed

Ask Spurgeon, Calvin and Whitefield and countless others.

 

[EdSutton]

Ask Spurgeon, Calvin and Whitefield and countless others.

Uh, which one of them said "get saved later", when you are not in a hurry, as standingfirminChrist implied, one 'in a hurry', was not capable of? The "Mourner's Bench", and "praying through" so-called, was popularized and championed by Finney, if my history is correct. Paul may have preached half the night, but I don't see that he told anyone to wait to believe in order to be saved.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Can you still be a sinner and be saved?

Paul , certainly a saved man, said

15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. (I Tim. 1:15 - NKJV)

I note that he used the present tense, here, and did not say, "I used to be the chief of sinners." Seems both he and the Holy Spirit thought one could be a sinner and be saved, just as both he and the Holy Spirit thought a saint should not sin, for they wrote both.

BTW, that is the only reference that one will find where any believer is ever described as a sinner, in the NT, but believers are called "holy", "sanctified", and "saint" (all from the Greek root word "hagios") at least 60 times.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Jesus said preach the word.

Act 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I have been preaching this for 35 years and will continue as long as I live and follow in the footsteps of Calvin, Whitefield and Spurgeon, along with countless others.

The doctrine of carriewave in something "new" being brought among God's people and Jesus said:

2Jo 1:10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:

What do you think He came to call sinners to do?????????????? Repent!!!

Brother Bob, the BB moniker of the individual you are commenting about is carrierwave~, not carriewave. That is twice I have seen this. I just two days ago got on Alcott for calling standingfirminChrist another name he asked not to be called. carrierwave~ has stated in a post that that is his BB 'handle'. It is clear that I am not in agreement with standingfirminChrist on what we are discussing in this thread, but I respect him enough to honor his wishes as to his name. I'll ask that you do the same for carrierwave~.

BTW, standingfirminChrist, the thrust of my above post is also applicable to you, as you have twice, already in this thread referred to "Hylots", a not-so-subtle sideways dig, if I ever saw one. I asked others not to use a disparaging remark about your name, and I think it only fair to ask that you not use that sort of comment about another, especially one who is no longer able to defend himself. FTR, I also made a similar post asking that another not comment on you, as you could not defend yourself, while you were on "vacation" a while back, as to a negative comment made by another.

I have said on the BB that one can call me Ed, EdSutton, Dummy!, "Hey you!" as long as one does not call me "late for dinner". That still holds, where I'm concerned. Others have not made that type statement. Please, everyone, respect that that is their privilege.

Ed

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Ed,

Hylots is a moniker given to those who lift Jack Hyles teaching above and beyond the Word of God. They are ones who put Hyles on a pedistal and lift him as if he were a god himself. I did not call a specific person a hylot on this board.

But it is true what I said. Don't believe me? Email them, visit their church, call them and ask them about Hyles and his teachings. And try to refute anything that Hyles has preached and they will show you why many call them hylots.

 

[Brother Bob]

Paul , certainly a saved man, said Quote:
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. (I Tim. 1:15 - NKJV)
I note that he used the present tense, here, and did not say, "I used to be the chief of sinners." Seems both he and the Holy Spirit thought one could be a sinner and be saved, just as both he and the Holy Spirit thought a saint should not sin, for they wrote both.

BTW, that is the only reference that one will find where any believer is ever described as a sinner, in the NT, but believers are called "holy", "sanctified", and "saint" (all from the Greek root word "hagios") at least 60 times.

Ed

What was all these sins Paul was committing?

I know he said he was not meek to be an apostle for he persecuted the church of God and I think that is what he meant, being he had already spoke of what sin he had committed. I don't know of any sins he was committing when he wrote the scripture.

Its the same as Hank Aaron could say he was the greatest hitter in baseball years after he hit his last home run.

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Bob, the BB moniker of the individual you are commenting about is carrierwave~, not carriewave. It was a mistype, I respect him enough to honor his wishes as to his name. I'll ask that you do the same for carrierwave~.

It was a mistype, for almost every time I have copied and pasted his name. What gives you the right to get on anyone??? You know something I don't?? You can ask, that is ok with me. Ask all you want.

I guess it does keep you busy though.

 

[Brother Bob]

ED;
Just trying to inform you what takes place in Salvation.

Spurgeon:
There must be a true and actual abandonment of sin, and a turning unto righteousness in real act and deed in every day life. Do you say you are sorry, and repent, and yet go on from day to day, just as you always went? Will you now boy your heads, and say, "Lord, I Repent," and in a little while commit the same deeds again? If you do, your repentance is worse than nothing, and shall but make your destruction yet more sure; for he that voweth to his Maker, and doth not pay, hath committed another sin, in that he hath attempted to deceive the Almighty, and lie against God

 

[EdSutton]

It was a mistype, for almost every time I have copied and pasted his name.

I certainly can understand a mistype. My own fingers do not work as well as I would like, and I often overlook my own typing mistakes, even when attempting to proof-read my posts, so OK.

I was just being consistent, in bringing this up. It would have been inconsistent to call Alcott on the carpet with his cracks about standingfirminChrist, and not mention a misuse of a name by another, even though it was completely unintended, IMO, as yours no doubt were.

However, his were intentional, but I was not going to make two different standards.

Peace,

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Its the same as Hank Aaron could say he was the greatest hitter in baseball years after he hit his last home run.

Just because Hank Aaron could say it didn't make it so, even then or now. I suggest both Sadaharu Oh (Wang Chenchih) ( 868 HR, 2170 RBI, .301 BA) as a professional, in the Japan Central League, and Joshua (Josh) Gibson, Sr. with (~ .350 BA and some 800 HR) in the Negro, Cuban, Mexican, and Dominican Leagues (Remember, he was excluded from the National and American leagues, at that time, because of race.), prior to his untimely death at the early age of 35, would both compare very favorably to Henry Louis (Hank) Aaron with 755 HR, 2297 RBI, .305 BA), as do George Herman (Babe) Ruth (714 HR, 2217 RBI, .342 BA) and Barry (Better Hitting through Chemistry) Bonds, aka 'Barry Steroid', currently at (762 HR, 1996 RBI, .298 BA).

I do note that none of the stats, other than those of Josh Gibson, include any time in what was known as the minor leagues, where Ruth, Aaron and Bonds all played, to some degree, nor any so-called "Winter Ball", either, so there might be some variation on actual stats for all the Big 'Major league' three, as professionals. And I just wonder what the stats might have been if any of the five could have played with Colorado for an entire career, as well.

I know if I were in baseball, I'd sure give my eye teeth to have any three of them in the same lineup, at the same time for an entire career. They'd have given an entire new meaning to "Murderer's Row" (Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Tony Lazzeri, Earle Combs, Bob Meusel, et al.) of the 1927 NY Yankees, which was arguably the best baseball team of all time, with a starting outfield that batted a collective .350 and an infield that hit .309, with the 8 starting fielders averaging .320 as it was. Not to mention the pitching staff wasn't exactly "chopped liver" with three of the top four ERA, and three of the top five in wins in the league among the starters.

If Joe Torre had had that lineup to work with this year, he'd still have a job! :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

If Joe Torre had had that lineup to work with this year, he'd still have a job! :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

Well Joe Torre has the name of the greatest manager ever and he don't even have a Job. As Paul persecuted the church and considered himself the greatest sinner of all or cheif, even though he had been forgiven.

BBob,

 

[EdSutton]

Well Joe Torre has the name of the greatest manager ever and he don't even have a Job. As Paul persecuted the church and considered himself the greatest sinner of all or cheif, even though he had been forgiven.

BBob,

I admit being a fan of Joe Torre, both as a player and a manager who should definitley already be in the Hall of Fame, as a player, IMO. :thumbs:

But I'm not sure I would rate him as the greatest manager ever, for that is extremely select company, at #1, even if Paul did have it, both in his opinion, as well as that of the Holy Spirit, who inspired Paul to write that. Once again, Paul did not say he WAS chief (of sinners), but AM chief (of sinners). He was not looking back, when he penned this!

But his (Joe's, not Paul's) managerial record definitley rates as HOF status, as well, :thumbs: as he already has many more wins and higher percentages than some already enshrined there, including Miller Huggins, the manager of the "Murderer's Row" gang, who died young at the age of 50, to the great loss of baseball. :tear:

Ed