It is not in the bible !

[steaver]

Well do the apostles speak the truth here or are they pharisees?

2 Peter 3

16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


Are they not deeming folks UNLEARNED? Is scripture HARD TO UNDERSTAND? Can scripture alone LEAD ONE To one's OWN DESTRUCTION?

Whom does Paul speak of?

(17)"Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness".

The "wicked" are NOT Christians. But the wicked can lead astray the Christian which perhaps has not been allowed to read the text for themselves or are manipulated by those claiming to have an authority over the scripture's applications and interpretations.

"But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2Cor 11:12-14)

And once again, where is God in your formula? Every born again Christian has the Holy Spirit to teach them the scripture and to give them understanding between the false and the real teacher/preacher. This is why WE are admonished to "try the spirits" and not just say "well the preacher said or well the RCC said so it must be so".

You continue to leave God out of your analogies. Scripture teaches we learn from the Holy Spirit as we read or hear the Scripture. God also gives us teachers and preachers, but these teachers and preachers must agree with the Holy Spirit which is living within the child of God.

 

[steaver]

Evidence Brother. Show me where that happened.

Really? Even to this day. Tell me, how many of your RCC preachers begin their sermons with "Open your bibles to..."

 

[steaver]

You would be swearing up and down that Allah is God and Muhammad is his prophet had it been a Qua-ran put in your hands.

There again, do you not understand it is God who must agree with the text for it to be Scripture from God? There is no gospel found in the Qua-ran, there is no power in it's words. If one is found swearing up and down that Allah is God and Muhammad is his prophet it will be because they fear the sword and are forced to do so or be killed. You keep missing the God factor.

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. (2Tim 3:5-7)

 

[steaver]

We do study what is available and do debate, But when it is settled and the church as a whole finally declares what is right and what is wrong, we don't leave the faith to start a new one.

Then you debate nothing, it is settled. What would you debate? The RCC declares one can hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, reject Jesus Christ is the Son of God, yet still will be saved as long as they are a good religious person in their own faith. If you cannot read for yourself John chapter three and see this falsehood perpetuated by the RCC, then you yourself have freely chosen to blindly follow what another man or men have said over what Jesus Christ Himself has said.

 

[steaver]

“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

How can you possibly take a Scripture instructing a brother's sin to be dealt with and make it about deciding Scripture interpretations?! Do you see how you are being duped? The RCC is taking Scripture totally out of it's context and making THEMSELVES the final authority. Again, at every turn the power of the Holy Spirit is void in the RCC arguments for themselves. That should be curious for you.

 

[steaver]

If I see something going wrong in my church I fight it, Just like I would fight for my family. What I don't do is divorce and leave them.

Well the "You can be saved apart from believing Jesus Christ is the Son of God" sure hasn't made you fight! You just accept it be cause the RCC said so, so it must be so. Where is your fight for the Gospel?

 

[utilyan]

Then you debate nothing, it is settled. What would you debate? The RCC declares one can hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, reject Jesus Christ is the Son of God, yet still will be saved as long as they are a good religious person in their own faith. If you cannot read for yourself John chapter three and see this falsehood perpetuated by the RCC, then you yourself have freely chosen to blindly follow what another man or men have said over what Jesus Christ Himself has said.

Straw man. The Catholic faith teaches Jesus Christ is God.

We teach the story of the GOOD SAMARITAN, Do you teach a DAMNED ONE? because if he believe'd Jesus is God he would be the GOOD CHRISTIAN rather then SAMARITAN.

The DEVIL knows Jesus Christ is God, that doesn't save the Devil. Jesus Christ himself gives examples what it means to reject him this is centered around the commandments Love GOD and Love neighbor.

We believe God's mercy takes into account the measure of faith given.

God is a lot more understanding than we are. I don't think anyone in the world would reject who Jesus Christ is, I believe billions reject what they THINK he is.



Suppose tomorrow the church starts to teach that mickey mouse is God. Well you have a honorable obligation to protect the church. The church teaches that it is a sin to go against your conscience. It doesn't matter how great the odds appear, God is on your side, you need to stand up and defend your church.

As scripture states however what you don't do is cut and run, and divide over and over again. Your better off picking up the attitude "we didn't leave, you guys left! when you did so and so and so".

Our differences lets work it out as scripture states. Tomorrow you can be the majority, I don't care if your 10 billion, If I got God on my side I'm assured victory.


Think about that statement "faith alone" why not practice what you preach? Maybe God is trying to tell you something.

I look at you as a fellow brother and respect the corrections you give me, The intent serves God, I believe you love Jesus Christ. I certainly think your mistaken about doctrine, I don't judge you, I'm pretty sure I would be doing worst in your shoes.

 

[utilyan]

Really? Even to this day. Tell me, how many of your RCC preachers begin their sermons with "Open your bibles to..."

Show me how many of Christ's sermon's begin with "open your bibles to...".

You go to church your going to get 3 scriptures readings, Pslams and proverbs here and there, And most importantly the SCRIPTURE JESUS WROTE HIMSELF in the language, grammar and method he established himself, Bread and Wine, body and blood.


You got this cute rule that says It must be ONLY in the bible to be christian. I challenge THAT RULE is unbiblical.
Show me this rule in the bible.

If you don't have this.

The bible is the SOLE RULE OF FAITH concerning christianity. I often wish that was said in scripture.

That FALSE RULE cannot be found ANYWHERE.

 

[Yeshua1]

Straw man. The Catholic faith teaches Jesus Christ is God.

We teach the story of the GOOD SAMARITAN, Do you teach a DAMNED ONE? because if he believe'd Jesus is God he would be the GOOD CHRISTIAN rather then SAMARITAN.

The DEVIL knows Jesus Christ is God, that doesn't save the Devil. Jesus Christ himself gives examples what it means to reject him this is centered around the commandments Love GOD and Love neighbor.

We believe God's mercy takes into account the measure of faith given.

God is a lot more understanding than we are. I don't think anyone in the world would reject who Jesus Christ is, I believe billions reject what they THINK he is.



Suppose tomorrow the church starts to teach that mickey mouse is God. Well you have a honorable obligation to protect the church. The church teaches that it is a sin to go against your conscience. It doesn't matter how great the odds appear, God is on your side, you need to stand up and defend your church.

As scripture states however what you don't do is cut and run, and divide over and over again. Your better off picking up the attitude "we didn't leave, you guys left! when you did so and so and so".

Our differences lets work it out as scripture states. Tomorrow you can be the majority, I don't care if your 10 billion, If I got God on my side I'm assured victory.


Think about that statement "faith alone" why not practice what you preach? Maybe God is trying to tell you something.

I look at you as a fellow brother and respect the corrections you give me, The intent serves God, I believe you love Jesus Christ. I certainly think your mistaken about doctrine, I don't judge you, I'm pretty sure I would be doing worst in your shoes.

the Church of Rome holds with and teaches another false Gospel, period!

 

[utilyan]

the Church of Rome holds with and teaches another false Gospel, period!

Our Gospel is Jesus Christ. Our Highest authority is God almighty.

 

[Yeshua1]

What must a Catholic do to have eternal life then?

 

[steaver]

Straw man. The Catholic faith teaches Jesus Christ is God.

That wasn't the subject. The subject was the RCC teaches one can reject Jesus Christ is the Son of God and still be just ok, fine and saved. this is absolutely against the teaching of Jesus Christ. You only deny this because your faith and salvation lies with the doctrines of men who have seduced you.

Here it is...

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God....He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." ~Jesus Christ~

You face a choice, believe Jesus Christ whom you say you trust, or believe the RCC's teaching you gave above. It cannot be both.

 

[Rob_BW]

Show me how many of Christ's sermon's begin with "open your bibles to...".

Luke 4:16-21
16When he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, he went to the synagogue on the sabbath day, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written: 18“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, 19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”20And he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him.21Then he began to say to them, “Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”

 

[utilyan]

Luke 4:16-21
16When he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, he went to the synagogue on the sabbath day, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written: 18“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, 19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”20And he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him.21Then he began to say to them, “Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”

That's not "open your bible". Every Mass we read scripture.

 

[utilyan]

What must a Catholic do to have eternal life then?

PERFECT answer of Jesus Christ.

Luke 10

25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”


Do you believe Jesus Christ?

 

[utilyan]

That wasn't the subject. The subject was the RCC teaches one can reject Jesus Christ is the Son of God and still be just ok, fine and saved. this is absolutely against the teaching of Jesus Christ. You only deny this because your faith and salvation lies with the doctrines of men who have seduced you.

Here it is...

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God....He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." ~Jesus Christ~

You face a choice, believe Jesus Christ whom you say you trust, or believe the RCC's teaching you gave above. It cannot be both.

That's funny comming from a CALVINIST and FAITH ALONE camp.

Are you saying I must engage in the GOOD WORK of obedience, acknowledging that truth that God gave his son?

Choice I thought we didn't have a choice? I thought it was GOD's choice.

What happen to Faith Alone and no one has to do jack?


The Teaching Christ gave is the CATHOLIC Teaching.

The Church is one FLESH the Body of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the HEAD of the Church.

Your belief that God is EVIL, the author of evil. You say he "ordains" it, but doesn't actually author it?

Btw BAPTIST = Calvinist. Catholics are not Calvinist. Get the plank out your own eye first.

I could leave the Catholic church Today......where am I going to go? You don't even know. Half of you, we don't even know what you are !?

None of you agree with each other.



"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God....He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

There is nothing in there concerning Christ's divinity.

The highest priority is LOVE. That is kindness, love and compassion.

If there was a mentally handicapped boy who didn't understand anything, we would baptize him while you would still be scratching your head as to whether he was part of God's family.

Your stance is easily pathetic, because it is based on evil.

 

[Adonia]

Really? Even to this day. Tell me, how many of your RCC preachers begin their sermons with "Open your bibles to..."

The purpose of the Mass is the re-enactment of the Last Supper and that fateful day on Calvary (His Memorial) that is the focus, not the sermon (as occurs in your service) and that is exactly what we do . "Do this in memory of me" Jesus said - so we surely follow His command.

Having said that, we have a liturgical form of worship and as our brother utilyan said we have 3 readings from the Scriptures (OT, NT, and a Gospel) and it makes no difference if those readings are printed in a book called "The Bible" or they are printed in a book called "A Missal" - they are one and the same.

 

[Rob_BW]

That's not "open your bible". Every Mass we read scripture.

Way to move the goalposts.

 

[steaver]

That's funny comming from a CALVINIST and FAITH ALONE camp.

Are you saying I must engage in the GOOD WORK of obedience, acknowledging that truth that God gave his son?

Choice I thought we didn't have a choice? I thought it was GOD's choice.

What happen to Faith Alone and no one has to do jack?

Deflecting to avoid the uncomfortable pressure of Christ's words does not work with me. I will stay on point until the Holy Spirit breaks through for you or you stomp your feet, shake your fist at those words of Christ, and walk away frustrated.

The Teaching Christ gave is the CATHOLIC Teaching.

The Church is one FLESH the Body of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the HEAD of the Church.

Your belief that God is EVIL, the author of evil. You say he "ordains" it, but doesn't actually author it?

Btw BAPTIST = Calvinist. Catholics are not Calvinist. Get the plank out your own eye first.

More deflection...see above.

I could leave the Catholic church Today......where am I going to go? You don't even know. Half of you, we don't even know what you are !?

How about going to Jesus Christ. Salvation is in Christ, not in ANY church.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God....He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

There is nothing in there concerning Christ's divinity.

The highest priority is LOVE. That is kindness, love and compassion.

Finally, back to my topic. Do you believe what Jesus Christ said here, BOTH things He said? Yes or No? This is not difficult, nothing can be taken out of context, it is very straight forward. Is your answer Yes or No?

If there was a mentally handicapped boy who didn't understand anything, we would baptize him while you would still be scratching your head as to whether he was part of God's family.

Yet another deflection. You could start a new thread on those who cannot understand or those who never heard the gospel. But we are on a specific topic here which you still need to face, then we can move on if you then like. Let me reitterate the topic here we are on...

The RCC declares a person can REJECT Jesus Christ as the Son of God and still be saved as long as they do some lovin on some folks. John chapter 3 declares this position is false. Thus, the church which claims to be the one and only one which holds the blessing of Jesus Christ is the church which rejects what Jesus Christ has said.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Suppose tomorrow the church starts to teach that mickey mouse is God. Well you have a honorable obligation to protect the church.

Catholicism in a nutshell.

I look at you as a fellow brother and respect the corrections you give me, The intent serves God, I believe you love Jesus Christ. I certainly think your mistaken about doctrine, I don't judge you, I'm pretty sure I would be doing worst in your shoes.

So, you admit that if Catholicism teaches something crazy, you have an obligation to side with the Catholic Church, but if the Catholic Church pronounces somebody "anathema", you're free to disagree and declare them a brother in your version of Christ?