It is not in the bible !

[Happy]

You do know that mary of her own rightiousness was no more a sacred vessal that the prostitue Mary would have been, as both were sinners, correct?

Everyone is born a sinner ~

Mary, mother of Jesus, had faith, and the Spirit of God upon her, BEFORE Jesus entered her virgin womb.
We also know from OT history, that righteousness is accounted to the man BECAUSE of their faith AND the Spirit of God IS with them.

Mary, of Magdala, Israel, was reputed to be of well to do and practiced sin, and THEN met Jesus and became a follower of His ministry.

The sacred vessel of Mary's virgin womb is well spelled out by the very term VIRGIN, compared to Mary of Magdala whose womb was not virgin at the time she met Jesus.

 

[Rob_BW]

The problem Rev is you can't have it both ways. Lets start with the stance Mary is just one of us TOTALLY DEPRAVED. Show us where her REGENERATION is. Jesus Christ hasn't died on the cross yet.

Assuming she really is the mother we talking Jesus has her DNA made up of from her body.

So Jesus' nature is with sin or not? If you say Jesus doesn't pick up the "SIN NATURE" of Mary Your asserting Mary is PURE AND WITHOUT SIN. That's where we are stepping back saying Ok sure thing lets do it your way....... tell us about the SIN NATURE that comprises of Jesus Christ.

There are certainly loopholes, in case you never thought this through. For example Jesus Conceived "IN" Mary but not "OF" Mary. Like surrogate, That is saying Mary's egg was not used at all. Just some divine egg appeared from no wheres and was conceived in her womb.

That egg that Mary puts up either has sin nature or is perfect. She would have to have been fully regenerate maybe even glorified prior to conception this is of course if you insist Mary has a sin nature and is "just like all of us" in terms of achievement and total depravity.

Mary put up an egg folks, had it been any other egg that is somebody else there is no Jesus Christ.


Suppose she did not OBEY then what? I believe Mary did consent. Forced to consent would not fly.

So Mary can miraculously be born without original sin, but Jesus couldn't, and had to be born from someone without original sin?

I don't know if that's passing the logic test.

 

[annsni]

So Mary can miraculously be born without original sin, but Jesus couldn't, and had to be born from someone without original sin?

I don't know if that's passing the logic test.

That's what I've always said. Did Jesus need to be second generation sinless in order to be even more sinless?

 

[Rob_BW]

That's what I've always said. Did Jesus need to be second generation sinless in order to be even more sinless?

Right? So Mary could be born sinless in a sinful womb, but Jesus couldn't?

I'm just not seeing it. It kinda looks like a reactionary view against Melchiorite Christology.

 

[Happy]

Lets start with the stance Mary is just one of us TOTALLY DEPRAVED.

No. And neither were the OT Saints who were saved and neither is any many who is saved.

Show us where her REGENERATION is.

Luke 1
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee:

Jesus Christ hasn't died on the cross yet.

Jesus is the Lamb that was slain as the foundation of the world was being laid.

Rev 13
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Assuming she really is the mother we talking Jesus has her DNA made up of from her body.

No. The makeup of Mary has nothing to do with God preparing a body for His Word, for when He came into the world.

Mary was Jesus' "lawful" Mother, according to Jewish Law, and Roman civil Law. (ie Gentile civil law).

So Jesus' nature is with sin or not?

Jesus was and is without sin.

If you say Jesus doesn't pick up the "SIN NATURE" of Mary Your asserting Mary is PURE AND WITHOUT SIN. That's where we are stepping back saying Ok sure thing lets do it your way....... tell us about the SIN NATURE that comprises of Jesus Christ.

There are certainly loopholes, in case you never thought this through. For example Jesus Conceived "IN" Mary but not "OF" Mary. Like surrogate, That is saying Mary's egg was not used at all. Just some divine egg appeared from no wheres and was conceived in her womb.

That egg that Mary puts up either has sin nature or is perfect. She would have to have been fully regenerate maybe even glorified prior to conception this is of course if you insist Mary has a sin nature and is "just like all of us" in terms of achievement and total depravity.

Mary put up an egg folks, had it been any other egg that is somebody else there is no Jesus Christ.

Correct. Only Mary's virgin womb was used to introduce Jesus to the World, in the likeness as a man, according to the Law of nature. Telling us, Jesus was in her womb and for 9 months, just as any other pregnancy is in the womb and for 9 months, according to the Law; of nature.

Conception is the ACT of conceiving a child.
.....the ACT was; the Holy Spirit, ie Seed of God, entered her virgin womb.

Conceived means pregnant.
.....When the Holy Spirit came upon Mary, (entered her womb), She was conceived, ie pregnant.

Suppose she did not OBEY then what? I believe Mary did consent. Forced to consent would not fly.

Then God would have never chosen her. God knows all things.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

John 14
6Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.


Look in your church when there is a disagreement how you handle it? Leave and make another church.

Romans 16

17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.



We never left anything. Fact I'm the best example of "Faith Alone" you could only dream of. Faith and split is not faith alone. Faith and start another church that's is not faith alone.


The church was started by Jesus Christ. Its not our Job to start new churches.

Matthew 18

15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.


When we get together the church settles disputes of doctrine. There is no option to leave an start something new. If on every disagreement one left to start a new church we get the mess we have now. If your church came from another you got to go back and if they came from another they have to go back and keep going back. Till you arrive at the church Jesus Christ started.

This is also the only way you will ever see "faith alone" in action. Division and breaking is not faith alone.

My two brothers older than me were born when my parents were Reformed Church members. Four of us children were born when our parents were SDA.

I was born a sinner; not Reformed or SDA.

And although my name was entered into the register of the SDA church, I never became an SDA, not in heart, mind, or deed.

I 'left' the SDA church and to this day disown my water-baptism.

So what am I today? What I have been all my life, a sinner!

The same sinner?

The same sinner!

Anything else?

Yes! By the grace of God I am what I am, a believer, a Christian, an adopted child of our heavenly Father the Father of God's dear Son.

Who received birth-right and citizenship in the Kingdom of his dear Son by grace and by grace alone. Grace alone even grace without works even without faith which is the work of grace. That is how I, became and was born into the family of all saved.

NOT THROUGH ANY church of earthly organisation. Not through the SDA my parents were. LEAST, NEVER, God forbid, through anti-Christ the mother of all whores the Roman Catholic satanic world power! So I'm not Islam either!

 

[Yeshua1]

Perhaps it was the other way around ???

Their doctrines are not derived form the Bible...

 

[utilyan]

My two brothers older than me were born when my parents were Reformed Church members. Four of us children were born when our parents were SDA.

I was born a sinner; not Reformed or SDA.

And although my name was entered into the register of the SDA church, I never became an SDA, not in heart, mind, or deed.

I 'left' the SDA church and to this day disown my water-baptism.

So what am I today? What I have been all my life, a sinner!

The same sinner?

The same sinner!

Anything else?

Yes! By the grace of God I am what I am, a believer, a Christian, an adopted child of our heavenly Father the Father of God's dear Son.

Who received birth-right and citizenship in the Kingdom of his dear Son by grace and by grace alone. Grace alone even grace without works even without faith which is the work of grace. That is how I, became and was born into the family of all saved.

NOT THROUGH ANY church of earthly organisation. Not through the SDA my parents were. LEAST, NEVER, God forbid, through anti-Christ the mother of all whores the Roman Catholic satanic world power! So I'm not Islam either!

Gerhard, and you don't think that had effect? Don't you insist on "sabbath" worship? You still think ELLEN G WHITE is a PROPHET? There is no reasonable chance you picked that up from being SDA along with your anti catholic bias?

There are thousands of religions which did you study beside Christianity? I BET none other. Gee how convenient the parents who's religion you deem worthless, what they did absurd and silly, but HOLD ON this book they use, this BIBLE, OH this thing is probably RIGHT let me figure out how it realley works.

Thats nonsense folks. All I see is a rebellion against the parent religion.

"mother of all whores the Roman Catholic " Sure thats who we are. Is the mother of Jesus GOD TOO? NO? Well is a Mother of a WHORE a WHORE TOO? A condemnation could flip back on you.

Roman Catholic church is not a whore. Just a mother to one. "bible students" Did you do your homework, have you eaten your supper?, do you love your enemies?, do you know God is love?

We mother you all the time, we don't call you whore, we believe good is in there somewhere.

Your parents introduced you to Jesus. You pick up THEIR BOOKS and figure you know the rules better. So instead of challenging the proper channels ask Jesus commands "take it to the church" You leave and start your own thing.
Scripture doesn't say leave an start your own thing. See your group was part of their group and they lost the vote. When they got together to discuss the doctrine and gathered all the elders together.......THEY LOST. the Majority said your wrong. When your own "kids" disagree they will leave too

 

[steaver]

Thats nonsense folks. All I see is a rebellion against the parent religion.

You are missing the forest for the trees. The church of Rome is no parent to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Head of His church, not any group claiming to be. Any group which perverts the scriptures should be challenged and rebuked. Catholicism's Sanhedrin believes they have been put in charge. Nowhere will you find such a thing in the NT scriptures. It is made up and why do you think it was made up? Political Power! Just like the Jewish Sanhedrin which Jesus condemned for over stepping their duties and declaring their own declarations are they which controls the Word of God.

I have a question for you. Do you believe it was the work of Satan who took the Word of God, which the RCC would not allow the people to read for themselves, and distributed it into the hands of the people, or was this the work of God?

 

[Yeshua1]

You are missing the forest for the trees. The church of Rome is no parent to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Head of His church, not any group claiming to be. Any group which perverts the scriptures should be challenged and rebuked. Catholicism's Sanhedrin believes they have been put in charge. Nowhere will you find such a thing in the NT scriptures. It is made up and why do you think it was made up? Political Power! Just like the Jewish Sanhedrin which Jesus condemned for over stepping their duties and declaring their own declarations are they which controls the Word of God.

I have a question for you. Do you believe it was the work of Satan who took the Word of God, which the RCC would not allow the people to read for themselves, and distributed it into the hands of the people, or was this the work of God?

And was it the Lord who had the RCC kill off those catholics who actually got a hold of the real gospel message?

 

[utilyan]

You are missing the forest for the trees. The church of Rome is no parent to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Head of His church, not any group claiming to be. Any group which perverts the scriptures should be challenged and rebuked. Catholicism's Sanhedrin believes they have been put in charge. Nowhere will you find such a thing in the NT scriptures. It is made up and why do you think it was made up? Political Power! Just like the Jewish Sanhedrin which Jesus condemned for over stepping their duties and declaring their own declarations are they which controls the Word of God.

I have a question for you. Do you believe it was the work of Satan who took the Word of God, which the RCC would not allow the people to read for themselves, and distributed it into the hands of the people, or was this the work of God?

Evidence brother, I can think of maybe two instances where countries shut down distribution of scripture among other things in response to warring conditions.

So not only were bible not permitted but plenty of them were burned. Of course this might offend a person if they think Jesus was just a phantom body of an angel, or that after renouncing all materialism one had to commit suicide to rid of one's evil body.

Context brother, You would take your child's bible away if it had crack in it, of course your enemies would only report that you took his bible away.

That is my suspicion, your only told what best vilifies your opposition.

My advice is not to ask a Nazi what Jews believe.



Matthew 23

1Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them.

Steaver, You are correct any group which perverts scripture should be challenged and rebuked.

Especially folks who add rules that don't exist in scripture namely that rules have to be in scripture for them to be christian.

Where your failing the greatest is to show me what is scripture, You got a canon of scripture put together by a tradition and no scripture that identifies what scripture is.


If you were a new christian and I took the 66 books of the bible that you recognize now in a library of other other religious works. You would be lost and unable to identify "the bible".

Someone PUT the bible in your hands. It could have been your MAMA, Your Father, a friend, a uncle, a Pastor.

It did NOT fall out the sky and say I AM IT.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Evidence brother, I can think of maybe two instances where countries shut down distribution of scripture among other things in response to warring conditions.

So not only were bible not permitted but plenty of them were burned. Of course this might offend a person if they think Jesus was just a phantom body of an angel, or that after renouncing all materialism one had to commit suicide to rid of one's evil body.

Context brother, You would take your child's bible away if it had crack in it, of course your enemies would only report that you took his bible away.

That is my suspicion, your only told what best vilifies your opposition.

My advice is not to ask a Nazi what Jews believe.

No evidence can be presented before a court unless that court allows the trial.

Until the early 20th century your church the anti-Christ anathematised Bible societies. But you quickly saw the inestimable lucre, and today you have all Protestants enslaved to Roman Catholic owned and ruled Bible societies and globally possess and control every word and verse and edition and translation of Bible published for MONEY and printed for MONEY and SOLD for MONEY. Even the RIGHT to translate the Bible is HELD BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH FOR MONEY AND FOR POWER TO RULE ALL MANKIND.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I have a question for you. Do you believe it was the work of Satan who took the Word of God, which the RCC would not allow the people to read for themselves, and distributed it into the hands of the people, or was this the work of God?

What do you think?! The RCC is more people than any conglomerate of people on earth and they are not so stupid as any either. They would make sure to get every percentage of profit into their own bank account and they would make even surer the business is run THEIR WAY for the biggest and most comprehensive profit possible.

 

[steaver]

What do you think?! The RCC is more people than any conglomerate of people on earth and they are not so stupid as any either. They would make sure to get every percentage of profit into their own bank account and they would make even surer the business is run THEIR WAY for the biggest and most comprehensive profit possible.

Maybe as they have evolved today, but at one time long ago they deemed the "unlearned" man to ignorant to be allowed to read the scriptures for themselves. Funny how Jesus chose the "unlearned" as His disciples to give the Word of God to in the first place. then along comes the new christian Pharisees of the day and took it upon themselves to snatch the Word away from the "unlearned" once again.

 

[steaver]

Evidence brother, I can think of maybe two instances where countries shut down distribution of scripture among other things in response to warring conditions.

What does countries have to do with the RCC shutting down the distribution of scripture?

So not only were bible not permitted but plenty of them were burned.

When did we get to christians burning bibles?

Context brother

Yes, and you have gone off on a tangent having nothing to do with why the RCC would want to keep the scriptures out of the hands of the common folk.

Now you have not answered my question...

" I have a question for you. Do you believe it was the work of Satan who took the Word of God, which the RCC would not allow the people to read for themselves, and distributed it into the hands of the people, or was this the work of God?"

 

[steaver]

Where your failing the greatest is to show me what is scripture, You got a canon of scripture put together by a tradition and no scripture that identifies what scripture is.

If you were a new christian and I took the 66 books of the bible that you recognize now in a library of other other religious works. You would be lost and unable to identify "the bible".

Someone PUT the bible in your hands. It could have been your MAMA, Your Father, a friend, a uncle, a Pastor.

It did NOT fall out the sky and say I AM IT.

Something is missing here from your analysis. Where is God? Who showed the RCC what is scripture? Apparently there were arguments and disagreements within the RCC which prompted them to get together and make a declaration as to what was of God and what was not. Now how did they do that? They studied what was available, debated what was available, prayed i'm sure and came to a consensus. Any baptist group, any Protestant group, any C&MA group actually has done the same. you think we do not have access to all the other writings which did not measure up? Do you think WE believe they do not measure up because the RCC said they do not measure up? GOD my friend!! God is the one who has guided His children into the Truth. The problem with the RCC is they become the Pharisees, they believe they alone are to control the power of God and they alone should decide who gets to read what God has said. It became POWER to them and like a power hungry politician the became politicians by proxy hanging their power over the law makers and having them do their bidding to make themselves filthy rich even to this day.

That "someone" who has put the scriptures into my hands is God. The Scriptures where written and preserved by God long before the RCC ever came into existence. You think without the RCC there would be no bible?? Isn't that a bit conceited there? Without the RCC God's Word would have failed to exist and been lost forever! Really?

 

[utilyan]

Maybe as they have evolved today, but at one time long ago they deemed the "unlearned" man to ignorant to be allowed to read the scriptures for themselves. Funny how Jesus chose the "unlearned" as His disciples to give the Word of God to in the first place. then along comes the new christian Pharisees of the day and took it upon themselves to snatch the Word away from the "unlearned" once again.

Well do the apostles speak the truth here or are they pharisees?

2 Peter 3

16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


Are they not deeming folks UNLEARNED? Is scripture HARD TO UNDERSTAND? Can scripture alone LEAD ONE To one's OWN DESTRUCTION?

 

[utilyan]

What does countries have to do with the RCC shutting down the distribution of scripture?

When did we get to christians burning bibles?

Yes, and you have gone off on a tangent having nothing to do with why the RCC would want to keep the scriptures out of the hands of the common folk.

Now you have not answered my question...

" I have a question for you. Do you believe it was the work of Satan who took the Word of God, which the RCC would not allow the people to read for themselves, and distributed it into the hands of the people, or was this the work of God?"

Evidence Brother. Show me where that happened.

 

[utilyan]

Something is missing here from your analysis. Where is God? Who showed the RCC what is scripture? Apparently there were arguments and disagreements within the RCC which prompted them to get together and make a declaration as to what was of God and what was not. Now how did they do that? They studied what was available, debated what was available, prayed i'm sure and came to a consensus. Any baptist group, any Protestant group, any C&MA group actually has done the same. you think we do not have access to all the other writings which did not measure up? Do you think WE believe they do not measure up because the RCC said they do not measure up? GOD my friend!! God is the one who has guided His children into the Truth. The problem with the RCC is they become the Pharisees, they believe they alone are to control the power of God and they alone should decide who gets to read what God has said. It became POWER to them and like a power hungry politician the became politicians by proxy hanging their power over the law makers and having them do their bidding to make themselves filthy rich even to this day.

That "someone" who has put the scriptures into my hands is God. The Scriptures where written and preserved by God long before the RCC ever came into existence. You think without the RCC there would be no bible?? Isn't that a bit conceited there? Without the RCC God's Word would have failed to exist and been lost forever! Really?

"That "someone" who has put the scriptures into my hands is God."

You would be swearing up and down that Allah is God and Muhammad is his prophet had it been a Qua-ran put in your hands.

Everything is by God's grace, even a bucket comes from God if your sitting in one.

Christians were given the great commission.



Jesus Christ is a Catholic.

The scripture was written by Catholics.

A Bold claim expected from God's church.


We do study what is available and do debate, But when it is settled and the church as a whole finally declares what is right and what is wrong, we don't leave the faith to start a new one.

You come from a disagreement of a council, not necessarily a catholic one, But a greater baptist group decided as a whole one thing you didn't like and start off a new thing. That's why you have thousands of different baptists. You can't even get your stuff together.

The bible provided a method to settle differences. It says to take it to the church.


Here is the scripture ALONG WITH AUTHORITY given:

Matthew 18

15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.


This is the method. We never kicked you out the church. You lost the debate, A council is held, A decision with the weight of 1.2 billion opposed your radical idea, and you lost. So instead of accepting the method Jesus provides. You start something new.

Your so splintered you left a group who left another group who left another who left us.

Now the CHURCH is just a fairy tale fantasy to you where your trying to match up to pretend and be the church of scripture and you think God is going to look down and see who is the closest.

No, Like Israel, Jesus Christ started this church, it is the genuine real deal. It could APPEAR to lose its way, it can become more evil then hell, it still is HIS.


For some folks who swear by "faith alone" you sure don't practice it every time you leave to start a new denomination.

If I see something going wrong in my church I fight it, Just like I would fight for my family. What I don't do is divorce and leave them.

The teaching is perfect. The disciples are sinners.

Who ever taught you LEFT if you didn't leave yourself. He gave up, He didn't trust God. Martin Luther for example could have been a SAINT. But he gave up. He abandoned and Left.


Division was never the method. Jesus didn't leave the Pharisees or Saducees nor did he tell the Samaritans hey you guys are a false religion.

It was always a message coming to ALL MEN, not a matter of we are this or that. Its the guy who wants a US VS THEM battle who splits away.

Romans 16

17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. 19For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.


We never left. While folks even in your own church are going to leave because they disagree with a particular.

Thats not the way to handle it. They should check with you and you all together settle the matter as scripture states.

 

[Yeshua1]

"That "someone" who has put the scriptures into my hands is God."

You would be swearing up and down that Allah is God and Muhammad is his prophet had it been a Qua-ran put in your hands.

Everything is by God's grace, even a bucket comes from God if your sitting in one.

Christians were given the great commission.



Jesus Christ is a Catholic.

The scripture was written by Catholics.

A Bold claim expected from God's church.


We do study what is available and do debate, But when it is settled and the church as a whole finally declares what is right and what is wrong, we don't leave the faith to start a new one.

You come from a disagreement of a council, not necessarily a catholic one, But a greater baptist group decided as a whole one thing you didn't like and start off a new thing. That's why you have thousands of different baptists. You can't even get your stuff together.

The bible provided a method to settle differences. It says to take it to the church.


Here is the scripture ALONG WITH AUTHORITY given:

Matthew 18

15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.


This is the method. We never kicked you out the church. You lost the debate, A council is held, A decision with the weight of 1.2 billion opposed your radical idea, and you lost. So instead of accepting the method Jesus provides. You start something new.

Your so splintered you left a group who left another group who left another who left us.

Now the CHURCH is just a fairy tale fantasy to you where your trying to match up to pretend and be the church of scripture and you think God is going to look down and see who is the closest.

No, Like Israel, Jesus Christ started this church, it is the genuine real deal. It could APPEAR to lose its way, it can become more evil then hell, it still is HIS.


For some folks who swear by "faith alone" you sure don't practice it every time you leave to start a new denomination.

If I see something going wrong in my church I fight it, Just like I would fight for my family. What I don't do is divorce and leave them.

The teaching is perfect. The disciples are sinners.

Who ever taught you LEFT if you didn't leave yourself. He gave up, He didn't trust God. Martin Luther for example could have been a SAINT. But he gave up. He abandoned and Left.


Division was never the method. Jesus didn't leave the Pharisees or Saducees nor did he tell the Samaritans hey you guys are a false religion.

It was always a message coming to ALL MEN, not a matter of we are this or that. Its the guy who wants a US VS THEM battle who splits away.

Romans 16

17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. 19For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.


We never left. While folks even in your own church are going to leave because they disagree with a particular.

Thats not the way to handle it. They should check with you and you all together settle the matter as scripture states.

Jesus has a more legit shot at being called a Baptist, as his theology agrees with ours, and NOT with that of the RCC!

There were NO catrholics until much later on in history!