Mary was chosen by Him to raise up the Son of God, and that is why she was highly favored, and not due to her being any more special than my mom or yours, as she was a sinner like all of us are!
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It is not in the bible !
- Thread starter wincam
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The Church od Rome are like the Pharisees at time of Christ, claimed to have right doctrine, but were far from God!
Prove it.
Nothing is impossible with God, why don't you try being his mama?
Luke 1
30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. 36And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. 37For with God nothing shall be impossible. 38And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
"for thou hast found favour with God"
"For with God nothing shall be impossible"
Is Mary part of the life of Jesus? Supposing God acts with love towards Christ, WIll anyone do? Could he get a rock to give birth to Jesus?
I'm curious of the details. Do you believe at this moment Mary is totally depraved? In the sense that all elect are also totally depraved until God regenerates them.
Or do we have a regenerate Mary who questions "How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?"
"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee" Wouldn't the holy spirit have regenerated her prior to this?
Wouldn't you prefer if scripture said "For GOD has found/made favour with Thou"?
Is Mary truly the mother? Is it her DNA with all the "SINFUL NATURE" common to all Infused in the conception of Christ or is Christ preconceived without sin and then placed in the womb?
No it isn't.
That seems to be rather close to what Ratramnus quoted, but hey! He was a Roman Catholic. He's one of yours, not mine.
No they don't, unless you are defining 'Real Presence' in a different way to your bosses.
This is waffle.
The bread is still bread and the wine is still wine. In the Lord's supper we feed upon Christ by faith. That is roughly what Calvin believed, and what he believed is similar to the Baptist 1689 Confession which is what I believe.
The bread is bread. It does not change in any way. The benefits of the ordinance are only to believers. Those generations of Roman Catholics who gawped at the bread as it was being waved about and thought that they were seeing God were being wickedly deceived-- no less so than those who made pilgrimages to see the 'breast milk of the Virgin Mary' or any of the other abominations inflicted on the people by the Church of Rome.
All Scripture is God-breathed........' (2 Timothy 3:16).
Therein lies at least one of your big mistakes. You have fallen for the lies of your Popes and priests. 'Test all things' (1 Thes. 5:21). I don't see where that doesn't apply to the Lord's Supper.
1 Corinthians 4:6. '.......That you may learn not to think beyond what is written.' However, one does need to avoid wresting the Scriptures which is what you have done to 2 Cor. 3:3. The Holy Spirit wrote the Scriptures (Hebrews 9:8; 10:15 etc.). Ink and paper is what men write their lies upon. The Scripture is the living word of the living God.
Don't be so silly-- or deliberately obtuse-- whichever one it is. Mary was saved by God before she conceived the Lord Jesus. God did not choose a woman dead in trespasses and sins to bear the Lord Jesus. That is why she says, "My spirit rejoices in God my Saviour' (Luke 1:47); she was saved QED. But she was a sinner; that's why she needed a Saviour.
When before she agreed?
Nope, there is still importance in the following of Christ's command, Eucharist is Christ's command and its done by its own command.
The minute you have to verify to go over Jesus' head, you got a problem because you've destroyed the method Jesus stated "do this".
The highest authority is God.
Scripture alone is insufficient, Just have a Muslim read it to you and give you his take its not going to be the same as yours. Neither do the thousands of denominations with thousands of meanings to the same words.
"1 Corinthians 4:6. '.......That you may learn not to think beyond what is written.' "
So is your bible just the old testament then? Because up to the point he is saying that there is no New Testament.
Instead we are given warning against Scripture Alone:
2 peter 3
16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
How about we correct it the way Jesus says?
"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
We can do that right now. But of course you don't want to, because you got a vote of about 1.2 billion against.
Thats why your faith just left another one, who left another one, so on and so forth, believing the advice of Christ to be a LIE.
Just like the Eucharist and how we communicate and speak with each other, its better to do things your way rather then Christ's way.
Whats the name of your denomination again? where can I find all the rules to perfectly interpret the bible?
Its just whatever POPE MARTIN thinks is right? Who else in the world has better understanding of scripture then you?
Tell us so we can go look him up.
Highly favored? In what way? Chosen by God and favored with not being saddled with the "Original Sin" that the rest of us were perhaps? Yes, that would be fitting indeed for the mother of God, the Creator of us all who was incarnated in the flesh. Could she sin afterwards? Yes she could (just like me and you can sin as believers) and when that happened she then had her Savior to count on. All nicely explained, don't you think?
Again, before The Lord saved her, Mary was in a spiritual state same as all of us were, as sinners, who deservedhell!
Except scripture says nothing of the sort.
Catholics are the worst expositors of scripture anywhere.
With Charasmatic Chaos close behind!
The problem Rev is you can't have it both ways. Lets start with the stance Mary is just one of us TOTALLY DEPRAVED. Show us where her REGENERATION is. Jesus Christ hasn't died on the cross yet.
Assuming she really is the mother we talking Jesus has her DNA made up of from her body.
So Jesus' nature is with sin or not? If you say Jesus doesn't pick up the "SIN NATURE" of Mary Your asserting Mary is PURE AND WITHOUT SIN. That's where we are stepping back saying Ok sure thing lets do it your way....... tell us about the SIN NATURE that comprises of Jesus Christ.
There are certainly loopholes, in case you never thought this through. For example Jesus Conceived "IN" Mary but not "OF" Mary. Like surrogate, That is saying Mary's egg was not used at all. Just some divine egg appeared from no wheres and was conceived in her womb.
That egg that Mary puts up either has sin nature or is perfect. She would have to have been fully regenerate maybe even glorified prior to conception this is of course if you insist Mary has a sin nature and is "just like all of us" in terms of achievement and total depravity.
Mary put up an egg folks, had it been any other egg that is somebody else there is no Jesus Christ.
Suppose she did not OBEY then what? I believe Mary did consent. Forced to consent would not fly.
Mary was not without sin. It goes back to the garden of Eden. Eve sinned first, correct? Yet God held Adam accountable for the one who brought sin into the world. The sin nature is passed on to the offspring through the man's seed, not the woman's egg. Mary was a sinner through Adam, Mary had an earthly father, but there was no man to pass on the sin nature to Jesus for she had "not known a man".
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Rom 5:12)
Where do you see Eve in this declaration? Did she not sin first? Sin is passed on only by the man.
DNA? Has nothing to do with sin nature.
So that the scriptures might be fulfilled, for one.
And if you consider the genealogy of Christ, the Spirit 'indirectly' impregnated women such as Tamar, Rahab, Bathsheba, all included in His lineage.
Mary is a saved sinner. That should be obvious; otherwise how could she talk about God her Saviour? Geddit? If she was born sinless, why would she need one?
She is an 'Old Testament saint.' She was looking forward to the Messiah. She is like Abraham who was looking forward to Christ's day (John 8:56); she is like Hannah, the first person to mention the word 'Messiah' (1 Samuel 2:10); she is like Elizabeth and Zechariah (Luke 1:69), or like Simeon who was 'waiting for the Consolation of Israel' (Luke 2:25). When she saw the sacrifices in the Temple, she didn't think that was enough to make her right with God; she looked beyond the bulls and goats and whatnot, which can never take away sin (Hebrews 10:11) to the 'Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.'
In a word, her heart had previously been opened by the Holy Spirit to show her that she was a lost sinner, and she had put het trust in God and in the Messiah she read about in the Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah etc. who would be called 'The LORD our righteousness.' All this before she knew that she would be the one to bear Him.
Yeah, and like you folks have got the Scriptures down pat, right? One non - orthodox Christian sect differs from another in it's interpretation with the only thing you having in common is a rejection of the Christian faith that was taught by the Bishops of the One Universal Christian Church from the early days of the expanding Christian experience. You believe little of what was taught and handed down, instead taking your cue from the men who arrived on the scene from the 1500's onward.
The best "its not in the bible" is the BIBLE itself.
There is no scriptural table of contents that lets you know what works is the bible.
The bible can be the quaran, the book of mormon, anything you want it to be.
Sure any idiot can pick up a king james and say well hey it says here its a table of contents. But the actual credit goes to the ANGLICAN PRIESTS who personally select what is and what is not scripture.
And then you got issues where we can tell where NEW TESTAMENT WORKS quotes OLD TESTAMENT WORKS and we know it comes from the SEPTUAGINT and then folks pretend the Septuagint isn't inspired holy scripture even after what they claim is inspired QUOTES it.
None here would know what the bible is unless someone puts it in there hands and says ok here it is. That is tradition in action.
Had they been born in muslim country sure enough same folks would be swearing up and down that I should submit to allah and muhammud is his only prophet.
Tradition is the hand that rocks the cradle and without it there is no bible.
There is no scriptural table of contents that lets you know what works is the bible.
The bible can be the quaran, the book of mormon, anything you want it to be.
Sure any idiot can pick up a king james and say well hey it says here its a table of contents. But the actual credit goes to the ANGLICAN PRIESTS who personally select what is and what is not scripture.
And then you got issues where we can tell where NEW TESTAMENT WORKS quotes OLD TESTAMENT WORKS and we know it comes from the SEPTUAGINT and then folks pretend the Septuagint isn't inspired holy scripture even after what they claim is inspired QUOTES it.
None here would know what the bible is unless someone puts it in there hands and says ok here it is. That is tradition in action.
Had they been born in muslim country sure enough same folks would be swearing up and down that I should submit to allah and muhammud is his only prophet.
Tradition is the hand that rocks the cradle and without it there is no bible.
If you follow what is revealed in Scripture and the context of a particular verse you would know and comprehend the particular meaning of "brother" and "brethren" when it is spoken.
All Jews are "brethren", bonded by their "race".
All Jews are not "brothers", because some Jews do not adhere and practice the Jewish faith.
All saved and born again Christians are "brothers", bonded by their "faith" in Christ.
All children of the same parents are "brothers", bonded by a mans seed and womans egg.
All children of the ONE same parent are "brothers", bonded by a mans seed, or womans egg and a marriage.
Jesus' brethren as he arrived on earth, were all Jews, bonded by race.
Jesus' brothers are all children of Mary and Joseph, because Jesus was lawfully accounted as Mary's son. (according to Jewish law AND Roman (Gentile) civil law)
Jesus additionally clarifies, (beyond the Jews, which would mean inclusion of the Gentiles), that anyone who does the Will of God, is Jesus' brother - which is clarification of my point....
"All saved and born again Christians - ie those who have submitted in faithfulness to God - ie doing the Will of God - are "brothers" - bonded by their same faith, in the same God.
God doesn't change - Scripture doesn't change -
However it ALSO is the desire of God that mankind's UNDERSTANDING DOES change that he become
enlightened to Gods Understanding.
Matt.12
- [50] For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Perhaps it was the other way around ???
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