I've Made a Decision

[agedman]

This may be just a poor attempt at humor, but come on. Calling brothers and sisters in Christ dark and villainous?


Wow...


Once again, if this is the type of spiritual maturity the beliefs system of Calvinist produce, I will pass.


Ephesians 5:2-4 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.


Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

The post indulged a bit of comedy out of the statement of "role play" and made a bit of lightheartedness of one playing roles as an actor upon a stage.

The typical roles of a drama includes both villain and hero and I honestly thought the post would be a fun read for everyone.

Would it have made the humor more palatable had I switched the roles?

Would that have still violated the Scriptures you offered?

Or are you opposed to any type of humor?

There is this reactionary condition on the BB that must turn what is even an attempt of humor into an opportunity to mock a view in which one doesn't agree and claim some superiority - even attempt to use Scripture (inappropriately in most cases) to bolster the claim.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Gotta love when the local troll (one of them, his twin probably hasn't seen post 180 to give it a 'like') rushes in to 'like' a maligning post. Brother JonShaff, I think your feathers were a bit ruffled as agedman was only making light of the issue!

 

[HankD]

I think I understand your point.

Your commenting upon the word decision as "an element in a series of events" which was authored and established for one saved in the "council of His own will."

Therefore, such a decision is part of any number of elements and decisions in the pre-established course of salvation and not a human initiated determination to accept or reject salvation.

Is this correct?

If this assumption of the reading of your post is correct, then it is Scriptural, for it places all the events in the framework of that which is responsive and not determinable. That is, such decisions are a response to the pre-established course rather than a determination of that course.

This is seen in Romans: "for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Without the heart of righteousness, all the mind determinations of confessing do not result in salvation.

Yes that is correct.

That is why I believe the word "decision" should not be an automatic anti-calvinistic shibboleth in the Calvin camp.

Talk to them and you may find in many cases a build up of emotions prior to the "decision". While regeneration is sudden (and cause a sudden "decision"), Conviction/reproval seems to be a lingering long time condition in some folks (as it was in me).


Thanks
HankD (Mugwump)

 

[HankD]

I suppose, one can play a role and leave the stage in disappointment and depression that the show is over, the stage safety light is on, the doors are locked, the marque no longer glittering, and it is on to acquiring and learning the role of another show.

However, don't you think it would be easier to play the dark roll of Arminian? It is so much easier to act out. All one has to do is poke fun at the truth and be villainous toward all other characters.

I would have to play the role of either because I am neither.
Jesus said that we would know folks by their fruit.

Is someone confesses Christ as Savior (God come in the flesh) and is trusting Him as savior then that along with the fruit of the Spirit being demonstrated I personally have no problem.

1 Corinthians 1
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Neither Calvin or Arius was crucified for us.

HankD

 

[HankD]

The post indulged a bit of comedy out of the statement of "role play" and made a bit of lightheartedness of one playing rolses as an actor upon a stage.

The typical roles of a drama includes both villain and hero and I honestly thought the post would be a fun read for everyone.

Would it have made the humor more palatable had I switched the roles?

Would that have still violated the Scriptures you offered?

Or are you opposed to any type of humor?

There is this reactionary condition on the BB that must turn what is even an attempt of humor into an opportunity to mock a view in which one doesn't agree and claim some superiority - even attempt to use Scripture (inappropriately in most cases) to bolster the claim.

agedman, Sorry that my statement came across as comedic.
That was not my intention.

My bad.

HankD

 

[agedman]

Yes that is correct.

That is why I believe the word "decision" should not be an automatic anti-calvinistic shibboleth in the Calvin camp.

Talk to them and you may find in many cases a build up of emotions prior to the "decision". While regeneration is sudden (and cause a sudden "decision"), Conviction/reproval seems to be a lingering long time condition in some folks (as it was in me).


Thanks
HankD (Mugwump)

I don't see the calvinsitic folks as ever getting away from the conviction / reproval self loathing of their sinfulness before the holiness of God until they pass into glory. Generally speaking, they have one word for God, "awesome," and such a view of sovereignty as to not allow themselves to consider growth, maturity, and work as other than the righteousness of God living through them.

The world "decision" is mostly viewed by that camp as something in which the others use in attempts to bolster the elements such as freedom of choice, prevenient (preceding) grace, free will, and so forth.

So, when the word is used, there is an immediate assumption made, and the assumption is usually correct.

In my own study, I have concluded that conviction of the heart cannot happen without the seed of regeneration already implanted. That this regeneration brings conviction that will result in Godly sorrow which is much different that than what is expressed in feelings of sorrow that the world can emotionally generate.

Therefore the "decision" is an overt manifestation of what has already taken place. The person expresses belief as a result of already having that change within their very core (a new nature) that causes them to believe. Something that cannot be done if one has to express belief before they have received that which is the foundation to the core of belief.

Those that would contend that first one must accept or in some manner acquire by making a "decision" must also have in construct some provision by God to allow that "decision" to be made. Such construct is not found anywhere in the Scriptures, yet is commonly taught and labeled as prevenient or preceding grace. It is a human imposition of some ether superimposed upon the Scriptures of which there is no foundation, but must certainly be in place for the scheme.

 

[agedman]

agedman, Sorry that my statement came across as comedic.
That was not my intention.

My bad.

HankD

Yours did not.

It was my intention to bring a bit of humor into the thread by playing off of the "roll" as one was upon the stage of a drama presentation.

That such an intention was taken as an affront was in no way to be assigned as your fault.

Rather, it is solely mine in allowing opportunity for such to take place.

Your statement is most necessary to the discussion, and brought up a segment of the thinking that is not often considered.

For that I am most grateful!

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes that is correct.

That is why I believe the word "decision" should not be an automatic anti-calvinistic shibboleth in the Calvin camp.

Talk to them and you may find in many cases a build up of emotions prior to the "decision". While regeneration is sudden (and cause a sudden "decision"), Conviction/reproval seems to be a lingering long time condition in some folks (as it was in me).


Thanks
HankD (Mugwump)

Everyday for a real believer is a decision for Christ
Christ is our decision.....
on should I say this
should I read that
should I dress this way
should I drink this or not drink it

everyday Christ is our decision.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Yes that is correct.

That is why I believe the word "decision" should not be an automatic anti-calvinistic shibboleth in the Calvin camp.

Talk to them and you may find in many cases a build up of emotions prior to the "decision". While regeneration is sudden (and cause a sudden "decision"), Conviction/reproval seems to be a lingering long time condition in some folks (as it was in me).


Thanks
HankD (Mugwump)

I don't know brother, I cannot say there was some decision made, or that I was wavering between deciding for Christ or not, or whatever that means. Would it be to decide whether to 'make' Him my Lord? Decide to 'believe'? (is that what supernatural faith is, deciding to believe?) Decide to pray? Decide to open the door with the knob only on the inside? Decide to be saved? I never sensed myself having that much power in conversion. I heard, I was converted. I also believe by His power, as do all believers Eph. 1:19.

The more I study the more I see it was all Him, all His power and choosing:

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1 Peter 1:1-3

He, by His grace chose me, as He has also chosen all others. It was His 'decision' all along. Anti-cals, Arminians, Semi and full Pelagians, all those contrary to DoG place much much undue emphasis on man and man deciding and make it the narrative.

 

[tyndale1946]

I don't know brother, I cannot say there was some decision made, or that I was wavering between deciding for Christ or not, or whatever that means. Would it be to decide whether to 'make' Him my Lord? Decide to 'believe'? (is that what supernatural faith is, deciding to believe?) Decide to pray? Decide to open the door with the knob only on the inside? Decide to be saved? I never sensed myself having that much power in conversion. I heard, I was converted. I also believe by His power, as do all believers Eph. 1:19.

The more I study the more I see it was all Him, all His power and choosing:

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1 Peter 1:1-3

He, by His grace chose me, as He has also chosen all others. It was His 'decision' all along. Anti-cals, Arminians, Semi and full Pelagians, all those contrary to DoG place much much undue emphasis on man and man deciding and make it the narrative.

Ah yes!... The long suffering of God... Not willing that any should perish!... Brother Glen

 

[JonShaff]

The post indulged a bit of comedy out of the statement of "role play" and made a bit of lightheartedness of one playing roles as an actor upon a stage.

The typical roles of a drama includes both villain and hero and I honestly thought the post would be a fun read for everyone.

Would it have made the humor more palatable had I switched the roles?

Would that have still violated the Scriptures you offered?

Or are you opposed to any type of humor?

There is this reactionary condition on the BB that must turn what is even an attempt of humor into an opportunity to mock a view in which one doesn't agree and claim some superiority - even attempt to use Scripture (inappropriately in most cases) to bolster the claim.

When a person, even for the sake of comedy, attributes characteristics to the Bride of Christ such as dark and villainous I will take offence every time.

 

[Internet Theologian]

When a person, even for the sake of comedy, attributes characteristics to the Bride of Christ such as dark and villainous I will take offence every time.

Fair enough. On that note we shouldn't assume because one is of camp 'A' or camp 'B' that they're _________ just because we've been conditioned to think of them in that light and see them through that lens. That should end all maligning and slander, noted actual misbehavior aside, which should be addressed with discretion.

 

[tyndale1946]

When a person, even for the sake of comedy, attributes characteristics to the Bride of Christ such as dark and villainous I will take offence every time.

Who said that?... We better take that offender without the camp and ???... He who is without sin cast the first stone... Brother Glen

 

[JonShaff]

Who said that?... We better take that offender without the camp and ???... He who is without sin cast the first stone... Brother Glen

Really? I was hoping this board would be a great place to learn and allow for "iron to Sharpen iron." What I've found is a lot of elitism and spiritual immaturity masked with "knowledge."

No, thanks.

Carry on.

I'm out.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes that is correct.

That is why I believe the word "decision" should not be an automatic anti-calvinistic shibboleth in the Calvin camp.

Talk to them and you may find in many cases a build up of emotions prior to the "decision". While regeneration is sudden (and cause a sudden "decision"), Conviction/reproval seems to be a lingering long time condition in some folks (as it was in me).


Thanks
HankD (Mugwump)

Yes that is correct.

That is why I believe the word "decision" should not be an automatic anti-calvinistic shibboleth in the Calvin camp.

Talk to them and you may find in many cases a build up of emotions prior to the "decision". While regeneration is sudden (and cause a sudden "decision"), Conviction/reproval seems to be a lingering long time condition in some folks (as it was in me).


Thanks
HankD (Mugwump)

Hank.....decisionism is what people react against.
Not the word ....but the teaching which is a denial of the biblical condition of man post fall. God speaks of people being made willing......

 

[Iconoclast]

I agreed with this from the beginning when I played the role of a calvinist.
"effectually drawn" is an adverbial statement that says nothing about the kind or methodology of drawing. God gives the ability and empowers the elect whom He chose unconditionally to make a decision they could not possibly make on their own. What is not calvinistic about that?

My point is that calvinists ought not to shun the word "decision" as it is a viable element in the series of events of salvation even under the calvinistic umbrella.

We were not there at the aforementioned "counsel of His own will" so we really don't know His criteria, and/or the order of events in the eternal state predestined to happen in the time continuum. The one thing we know from the scripture is our helpless/hopeless/powerless condition.

HankD

Hello Hank,

effectually drawn......

1thess1;
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

it continues on into chapter 2:
10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:

11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children,

12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I don't see the calvinsitic folks as ever getting away from the conviction / reproval self loathing of their sinfulness before the holiness of God until they pass into glory. Generally speaking, they have one word for God, "awesome," and such a view of sovereignty as to not allow themselves to consider growth, maturity, and work as other than the righteousness of God living through them.

As for the former above it's biblical, it's Christian. Only a criminal, or One only accused as such bears a cross:

And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Matthew 10:38

Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:27

And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke 9:23

The present tense awareness of self:

For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. Romans 7:18

Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Romans 7:24

The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. 1 Timothy 1:15

The happiness which accompanies this awareness which only a true believer knows:

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for their is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:3

As for your latter implication concerning the claiming the righteousness of God living in us, that is true and nothing to be ashamed of as all is to His Glory, 1 Cor. 10:31: Soli Deo Gloria!

 

[HankD]

Hello Hank,

effectually drawn......

1thess1;
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

it continues on into chapter 2:
10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:

11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children,

12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

OK Have no problem.

HankD

 

[HankD]

Everyday for a real believer is a decision for Christ
Christ is our decision.....
on should I say this
should I read that
should I dress this way
should I drink this or not drink it

everyday Christ is our decision.

I totally agree, even every moment.

HankD

 

[beameup]

Have you learned how to "Walk in the Spirit" (Holy Spirit) like your Apostle [Paul] has instructed you?
As soon as you "decided" (ie: were "saved"), did you receive teaching/instruction on Spiritual Matters (evil spirits-spiritual warfare & the Holy Spirit)?
If not, it's most certain that you simply "reverted" back to your "Old Man" (ie: ego, self, flesh, puffed up, etc.) and will remain "clueless" until the rapture.
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I [Paul] write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1 Corinthians 14:37-38