I've Made a Decision

[Internet Theologian]

proving? I wouldn't say that. Although that would be doing a solid job of using Hindsight and making the passage say what you want it to say lol

You wouldn't say that, I know, but you still misuse the text and apply it as an offer of salvation. It's not much different than 1 Cor. 10. This shows as warning those who are and are not His. There is nothing in what I've done using hindsight to make it say something. That's a bit unfair and frankly completely unfounded brother.

 

[JonShaff]

Matthew 1:21 is a starting point brother. Brother Iconoclast has also given you that as well (an additional passage to view)

The Text demands "His People"(on a national level) to be the Jews as it follows the ebb and flow of scripture as Salvation had yet to be offered to the gentiles (Acts 10) and Many of the Prophecies of Isaiah have yet to be fulfilled. Once again, you are making the scriptures say something they do not.

 

[JonShaff]

So when they do something ('decide') then God gives them a gift?

Brother, with all due respect, and it is due because you are a brother, you are wrecking havoc with the above Scripture. It is where we were THEN before salvation, dead, not some mere future plight as you say. Context rules - note 2:4 - 'we were as the rest (of mankind)'

I agree with "we were dead before salvation," But obviously we haven't experienced the second death and we weren't physically dead, correct? Therefore we have to limit what "dead" means

 

[JonShaff]

You wouldn't say that, I know, but you still misuse the text and apply it as an offer of salvation. It's not much different than 1 Cor. 10. This shows as warning those who are and are not His. There is nothing in what I've done using hindsight to make it say something. That's a bit unfair and frankly completely unfounded brother.

I'm not saying scripture is in it's present tense "Offering Salvation" to anyone. The Scriptures are for Believers. The Message of Christ Within the Scriptures is what we relay to Dead People (unbelievers) so that they may have Life.

 

[TCassidy]

Redherring my friend.

In other words you can't answer the question. And that is very, very sad.


1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.

 

[Iconoclast]

Right, Which brings us back to the original statement i have, I don't believe in Total Inability. What are the characteristics of being dead?

Genesis 3 DOES NOT give an indication how what Total Inability Asserts.

Shall we walk through Genesis three and see what has resulted because of Sin?

You Shall Surely Die...Spiritually and Physically Right?

Where does it say they cannot receive the things of God, God called and Adam answered.

The Ground will be filled with thorns, Pain in childbearing, The woman would desire to rule over the man, Man would have to work from the sweat of his brow....WHERE IS TOTAL INABILITY? You EISEGETE the text when you say what you assert about Total Inability....Why didn't God say it here?

Jon
It would be good to keep in mind that this account in Genesis is given by God to Moses. Moses was not there as an eyewitness .
Moses is dependent on upon God and His revelation .
God is telling Moses what he needs to know and what he intends to reveal about that whole circumstance.

For example we are not told how God gave Adam the capacity to speak and to think in a language that can communicate with God .
we are not told a lot of things .
we are told what we need to know and what had to be communicated at that time
Tom Cassidy had offered by Genesis 6 you see that the thoughts and intents of man were only evil contcontinuawere

 

[JonShaff]

In other words you can't answer the question. And that is very, very sad.


1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.

You were manipulative, you would do that to a brother in Christ?

 

[TCassidy]

You were manipulative, you would do that to a brother in Christ?

You are being dishonest. I asked you a legitimate question which you refuse to answer honestly. Would a brother in Christ do that?

 

[JonShaff]

You are being dishonest. I asked you a legitimate question which you refuse to answer honestly. Would a brother in Christ do that?

You gave me a redherring. How is that being honest?

 

[TCassidy]

You gave me a redherring. How is that being honest?

I asked you an honest question regarding your understanding of salvation. You refuse to answer it. If you were an honest man you would at least try to answer it. The fact that you keep trying to dodge answering it tells me you are not an honest man. You know that if you answer it honestly your understanding of biblical soteriology will have to change.

 

[JonShaff]

Now we are down to the nitty gritty. Some will be saved because they make a choice to not harden their hearts and others will not be saved because they make a choice to harden their hearts (or make no choice at all).

So, let's examine that thesis. You and your next door neighbor are both lost. You are invited to attend an evangelistic meeting at a local church. You both attend. You sit next to each other. You both hear the same message.

But you believe and are gloriously saved. Your neighbor does not and leaves lost.

So, what was it that made you choose to not harden your heart but made your neighbor do so?

I surrendered, He resisted to the Spirit Drawing.

Are you more spiritually minded than he?

No

Is there something about you that is smarter or otherwise better than he?

No

Why did you come to Christ but he didn't?

Already answered.

Why did you decide to come to Christ and he decided not to?

Trading my life for Christ sounded amazing

In what way are you better, smarter, more spiritually minded than he?

Redherring

Please see my responses in yours.

 

[JonShaff]

I asked you an honest question regarding your understanding of salvation. You refuse to answer it. If you were an honest man you would at least try to answer it. The fact that you keep trying to dodge answering it tells me you are not an honest man. You know that if you answer it honestly your understanding of biblical soteriology will have to change.

I answered yours, and you ignored mine. How do you know you have ears to hear and that you're not just parroting what sounds good to you?

 

[JonShaff]

How do you know you aren't part of the ones who "Doesn't have ears to hear" and that you are just parroting what sounds good to you?

TCASSIDY? You ignore mine and then try and chastise me for being reluctant to answer your question?

 

[InTheLight]

God revealed to man His law, life, and fellowship in His untested yet pre-fallen state.[original righteousness]. In this verse in Gen. the severe consequence of rebellion was made abundantly clear. God meant what He said.

I believe God has ordained whatsoever comes to pass.

The fact that Jesus was mediator and surety before the world was indicates God had indeed considered mankind as fallen in Adam.....or creation could not have taken place.

Does this qualify as a yes or a no to you?

Not really. If God ordained whatever came to pass and Jesus was the mediator before the world, then God ordained the fall. Is that what you are saying.

A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[InTheLight]

ITL,
God creates the law of gravity.

That law helps us....[we do not just float away into space]

Knowing the law exists you decide to step off the top of the empire state building despite being warned of the consequences of such action!

People looking at your splattered remains.......do they blame the law of gravity? or blame God because such a law and its consequences exist?
Did God push you off?

yes or no

or do we blame your parents for having you in the first place?

No, because gravity is a physical attribute of the world. It was here before the fall and after the fall.

My question is this--if man is totally depraved who made him that way?

 

[InTheLight]

Simple. He didn't. It is the natural result of the fall.

Sure, but who set up the consequences of the fall?

 

[InTheLight]

God did not intend the gift for each and every human. It is for those He has chosen brother.

The gift being at the post office requires that someone intended for you to have it.

 

[InTheLight]

As a TV set allows us to receive those electronic signals and see an image on a screen, those signals are unseen by us unless we have a device plugged into a power source....
so a dead sinner...needs life itself...regeneration by the Spirit bring us to life, so then that same word we have heard about and resisted...we can now welcome it.

Regeneration is like putting the tv on{the Spirit does this}
.......the signal is like the word preached,,,
The indwelling Spirit is like the cable and the parts of the tv itself that convert the signal into an understandable image and sound.

Human analogy is always flawed but this simply illustrates what takes place spiritually.

No kidding it's flawed--who plugs the TV set into the wall, who turns on the TV set? Humans.

 

[HankD]

Both!

Thank You JoJ.

HankD

 

[InTheLight]

Right, Which brings us back to the original statement i have, I don't believe in Total Inability. What are the characteristics of being dead?

Genesis 3 DOES NOT give an indication how what Total Inability Asserts.

Shall we walk through Genesis three and see what has resulted because of Sin?

You Shall Surely Die...Spiritually and Physically Right?

Where does it say they cannot receive the things of God, God called and Adam answered.

The Ground will be filled with thorns, Pain in childbearing, The woman would desire to rule over the man, Man would have to work from the sweat of his brow....WHERE IS TOTAL INABILITY? You EISEGETE the text when you say what you assert about Total Inability....Why didn't God say it here?

For that matter, why does God say this in Gen. 4?
7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”