I've Made a Decision

[JonShaff]

"JonShaff,


Unsaved men "know things".....but because of sin they twist and distort the God given meaning and purpose to replace it with their own sinful desires and notions.
They can never come to a godly saving knowledge without the Spirit granting it to them.
Instead they invent things according to their rules......which translates to sinful idolatry;

See psalm 115





This section describes mans universal and total depravity......here;
Because that, when they knew God,


they glorified him not as God,
neither were thankful;
but became vain in their imaginations,
and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image
made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie,
and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;



Man makes choices even if his will is not free.




They always do...psalm 14:1-3

I actually agree with what you assert.

The Only thing i Believe differently is that the Gospel Preached gives people, because God sovereignly willed it, the ability to "come Unto Him"

1 Corinthians 1
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I agree it is all God. Where did i say i Did anything supernatural?

Edit...Perhaps you are aware you ARE preaching a man-invented soteriology?

All I'm preaching is that salvation is all of God. Even faith is His, gifted to man, and is by His power, Eph. 2:19 and is not determined by decision, nor made effective by decision. If so then salvation would be a reward, not a gift. Instead faith is the evidence of conversion, faith granted by God and is externally granted. That is not an invention of man brother JonShaff

 

[JonShaff]

All I'm preaching is that salvation is all of God. Even faith is His, gifted to man, and is by His power, Eph. 2:19 and is not determined by decision, nor made effective by decision. If so then salvation would be a reward, not a gift. Instead faith is the evidence of conversion, faith granted by God and is externally granted. That is not an invention of man brother JonShaff

If you left a gift for me at the post office, and i never picked it up would you say i received that gift?

 

[Internet Theologian]

I actually agree with what you assert.

The Only thing i Believe differently is that the Gospel Preached gives people, because God sovereignly willed it, the ability to "come Unto Him"

1 Corinthians 1
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The Gospel preached gives the elect ability through the effectual call of the Spirit, not each and every man, note 2 Timothy 2:8-10.

 

[Internet Theologian]

If you left a gift for me at the post office, and i never picked it up would you say i received that gift?

God did not intend the gift for each and every human. It is for those He has chosen brother.

 

[Iconoclast]

I actually agree with what you assert.

The Only thing i Believe differently is that the Gospel Preached gives people, because God sovereignly willed it, the ability to "come Unto Him"

1 Corinthians 1
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Hello Jon

Agreement is good...lol... as much as we can ! We do not have to fight to the death,lol

The preaching of the gospel is the normal "means" That God uses to save sinners and draw them to himself.
I would say it this way.....the word preached does not save unless the Spirit gives the sinner a new heart to "welcome" the word.
The indwelling Spirit allows the sinner to receive or welcome truth.

As a TV set allows us to receive those electronic signals and see an image on a screen, those signals are unseen by us unless we have a device plugged into a power source....
so a dead sinner...needs life itself...regeneration by the Spirit bring us to life, so then that same word we have heard about and resisted...we can now welcome it.

Regeneration is like putting the tv on{the Spirit does this}
.......the signal is like the word preached,,,
The indwelling Spirit is like the cable and the parts of the tv itself that convert the signal into an understandable image and sound.

Human analogy is always flawed but this simply illustrates what takes place spiritually.

That is why in eph 4....new creation believers are being re-instructed....let him who stole, steal no more, but rather labor.....etc...putting away lying, speak truth...

 

[JonShaff]

The Gospel preached gives the elect ability through the effectual call of the Spirit, not each and every man, note 2 Timothy 2:8-10.

There i would differ with you, the Elect will the be the one's who are born again, and Because of God giving people a choice, there are those who harden their hearts....

Hebrews 3
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

 

[JonShaff]

God did not intend the gift for each and every human. It is for those He has chosen brother.

You have scripture for that, brother?

 

[JonShaff]

Hello Jon

Agreement is good...lol... as much as we can ! We do not have to fight to the death,lol

The preaching of the gospel is the normal "means" That God uses to save sinners and draw them to himself.
I would say it this way.....the word preached does not save unless the Spirit gives the sinner a new heart to "welcome" the word.
The indwelling Spirit allows the sinner to receive or welcome truth.

As a TV set allows us to receive those electronic signals and see an image on a screen, those signals are unseen by us unless we have a device plugged into a power source....
so a dead sinner...needs life itself...regeneration by the Spirit bring us to life, so then that same word we have heard about and resisted...we can now welcome it.

Regeneration is like putting the tv on{the Spirit does this}
.......the signal is like the word preached,,,
The indwelling Spirit is like the cable and the parts of the tv itself that convert the signal into an understandable image and sound.

Human analogy is always flawed but this simply illustrates what takes place spiritually.

That is why in eph 4....new creation believers are being re-instructed....let him who stole, steal no more, but rather labor.....etc...putting away lying, speak truth...

We were going good, until you mentioned Regeneration before Faith lol

 

[TCassidy]

Because of God giving people a choice, there are those who harden their hearts....

Now we are down to the nitty gritty. Some will be saved because they make a choice to not harden their hearts and others will not be saved because they make a choice to harden their hearts (or make no choice at all).

So, let's examine that thesis. You and your next door neighbor are both lost. You are invited to attend an evangelistic meeting at a local church. You both attend. You sit next to each other. You both hear the same message.

But you believe and are gloriously saved. Your neighbor does not and leaves lost.

So, what was it that made you choose to not harden your heart but made your neighbor do so?

Are you more spiritually minded than he?

Is there something about you that is smarter or otherwise better than he?

Why did you come to Christ but he didn't?

Why did you decide to come to Christ and he decided not to?

In what way are you better, smarter, more spiritually minded than he?

 

[JonShaff]

And let me try and be perfectly clear...

Whether it is innate or when the Word is Being heard...God gives the ability for People to Decide

Ephesians 2:1 i believe is misinterpreted as meaning "like preaching to a corpse." I believe because of Context and wording and recurring themes throughout scripture, it would be better understood as saying, "We were considered dead because of our Trespasses and Sin," Eluding to our our Future Plight had we not believed.

 

[Iconoclast]

Jon

We were going good, until you mentioned Regeneration before Faith lol

We are still going good......we have some differences so at first we have to identify the areas as clear as we can to examine why this is!

Saving faith/ regeneration happen at a point in time

death to life

 

[JonShaff]

But you believe and are gloriously saved. Your neighbor does not and leaves lost.

So, what was it that made you choose to not harden your heart but made your neighbor do so?

Are you more spiritually minded than he?

Is there something about you that is smarter or otherwise better than he?

Why did you come to Christ but he didn't?

Why did you decide to come to Christ and he decided not to?

In what way are you better, smarter, more spiritually minded than he?

Redherring my friend.

 

[Iconoclast]

And let me try and be perfectly clear...

Whether it is innate or when the Word is Being heard...God gives the ability for People to Decide

Ephesians 2:1 i believe is misinterpreted as meaning "like preaching to a corpse." I believe because of Context and wording and recurring themes throughout scripture, it would be better understood as saying, "We were considered dead because of our Trespasses and Sin," Eluding to our our Future Plight had we not believed.

Or we were dead indeed...before God gives us eternal life

 

[Iconoclast]

You have scripture for that, brother?

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

 

[Internet Theologian]

There i would differ with you, the Elect will the be the one's who are born again, and Because of God giving people a choice, there are those who harden their hearts....

Only the elect will be born again, and the lost cannot soften their hearts unless God does the softening, or opening, Acts 16:14.

Hebrews 3
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

Proving those who were His and those who were not. It would be a great advantage to not look at these kind of passages as always an 'offer of salvation' brother!

 

[Internet Theologian]

You have scripture for that, brother?

Matthew 1:21 is a starting point brother. Brother Iconoclast has also given you that as well (an additional passage to view)

 

[JonShaff]

Or we were dead indeed...before God gives us eternal life

Right, Which brings us back to the original statement i have, I don't believe in Total Inability. What are the characteristics of being dead?

Genesis 3 DOES NOT give an indication how what Total Inability Asserts.

Shall we walk through Genesis three and see what has resulted because of Sin?

You Shall Surely Die...Spiritually and Physically Right?

Where does it say they cannot receive the things of God, God called and Adam answered.

The Ground will be filled with thorns, Pain in childbearing, The woman would desire to rule over the man, Man would have to work from the sweat of his brow....WHERE IS TOTAL INABILITY? You EISEGETE the text when you say what you assert about Total Inability....Why didn't God say it here?

 

[JonShaff]

Only the elect will be born again, and the lost cannot soften their hearts unless God does the softening, or opening, Acts 16:14.



Proving those who were His and those who were not. It would be a great advantage to not look at these kind of passages as always an 'offer of salvation' brother!

proving? I wouldn't say that. Although that would be doing a solid job of using Hindsight and making the passage say what you want it to say lol

 

[Internet Theologian]

And let me try and be perfectly clear...

Whether it is innate or when the Word is Being heard...God gives the ability for People to Decide

Ephesians 2:1 i believe is misinterpreted as meaning "like preaching to a corpse." I believe because of Context and wording and recurring themes throughout scripture, it would be better understood as saying, "We were considered dead because of our Trespasses and Sin," Eluding to our our Future Plight had we not believed.

So when they do something ('decide') then God gives them a gift?

Brother, with all due respect, and it is due because you are a brother, you are wrecking havoc with the above Scripture. It is where we were THEN before salvation, dead, not some mere future plight as you say. Context rules - note 2:4 - 'we were as the rest (of mankind)'