...and who's Joshua speaking to? Egyptians? Babylonians? Hittites? No, he's speaking to Israel, redeemed with a strong hand from the house of bondage.
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I've Made a Decision
- Thread starter Internet Theologian
- Start date
...and who's Joshua speaking to? Egyptians? Babylonians? Hittites? No, he's speaking to Israel, redeemed with a strong hand from the house of bondage.
Were Sojourners forced to Worship the Lord?
heisrisen
Active Member
Great post. So many false converts trusted a decision they made and are going to hear I never knew you on judgment day. I'm tired of pastors watering down the gospel and giving false assurance. These are souls at stake, and they will be judged for what they did. They end up not seeing them as people, lost souls. They see them as another checkmark, or a number, a pat on the back! What ever happened to making sure someone was truly born of the spirit of God?! Nope, now you just say a little unbiblical prayer and you're in!
Yes, but did they keep the promise made?
"23 “Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to the Lord, the God of Israel.” 24 The people said to Joshua, “We will serve the Lord our God and we will obey His voice.”
Actually happened?Judges 1:
27 But Manasseh did not ...
29 Ephraim did not ...
30 Zebulun did not ...
31 Asher did not ...
33 Naphtali did not ...
And you know the results.
29 Ephraim did not ...
30 Zebulun did not ...
31 Asher did not ...
33 Naphtali did not ...
And you know the results.
God sent an angel: Judges 2:
1Now the angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, “I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land which I have sworn to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you, 2 and as for you, you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed Me; what is this you have done? 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they will become as thorns in your sides and their gods will be a snare to you.’”
It isn't a head decision, it is a heart change. A change that only God can make, and the reason the Scriptures state:
“I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." (Jeremiah 31)
I don't want to carry the thread too far away from the OP, but you know there is that difference between repentance and Godly sorrow. It is never enough to be repentant. It is Godly sorrow that the Holy Spirit brings that works unto salvation. Head deciding means very little.
From a psychological perspective, very few who make a head decision are helped. Those that have a complete change impacting every area of their living have a change of heart, a core change of perspective and motivation. The addicted may change their mind, but rarely does that translate into continued sobriety.
A rather interesting passage is the given in 1 Chronicles 12. It is the realignment from Saul to David. It lists a great number of battle hardened and says, "came to Hebron with a perfect heart to make David king over all Israel;"
Now that is a really good thing, but what of the rest?
"and all the rest also of Israel were of one mind to make David king."
It shows a difference in the heart of dedication and the mind set of persuasion. For you know the mind change didn't last long.
I totally agree EXCEPT in the final statement.
When you say, "He convicts, but then the decision must take place to either accept or resist," that view is askew from what I consider Scriptures teach.
Hebrews 9 " For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. "
Added to the other great passages that indicate that the decision is NOT to accept or resist. Those called will believe. Why? Because they have been given what those not called do not have. The "power of God."
How is such power acquired? Not by any effort or merit of any humankind. Rather it is given to all who do not turn, but embrace, accept, and bask in the light (John 1). The light is given to every man. But nearly all turn from the light, they reject, they shun the light. Those that do not do anything but dwell in the light, bask in the light, accept the light as they would breathe are given the power to become the Sons of God.
The wording is expressly specific and rules out any "choice" or "decision" making prayer.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply! One pet peave, and a good one imho, is this 'Everyone with bowed heads and closed eyes, and no one looking around. Now, is there anyone that would like to be saved? If so just slip up your hand if you've said this prayer, no one looking around. Yes, I see that hand, God bless you, if you meant it you're going to heaven!'
WHAT?????????????????? Conversion, the mighty work of God has been reduced to Scripture peddling methods?????????????
2 Thessalonians 1 is a great passage on the Second coming of the Lord.
6For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.
The question is why didn't they believe?
Because all that do not believe turn from the light (John 1). They indeed chose what is in their nature to choose - unbelief. There is nothing within them or of the nature to allow such to even consider belief; rather, these (according to other chapters in John) scorn, mock and cover up their evil, and even take pleasure in evil.
I see no problem with the first half.
'Everyone with bowed heads and closed eyes, and no one looking around. Now, is there anyone that would like to be saved? If so just slip up your hand"
It is that last part that sticks in my craw. Saying a prayer "accepting Christ" is not found in Scriptures!
Rather, what is wrong with saying:
"I see those hands, now those who raised their hand and any others that desire salvation, look up. The Scripture says those that believe are saved. Do you believe in your heart that God gave His one and Only Son to die on the Cross, and that Christ arose and is living in heaven to intercede? If you do, then by the authority of Scriptures you are saved because it is with your heart you have believed."
"I would like to visit with each of you in this room to my left after the closing prayer." It won't take long, but I want to give you some important information about belief and what will become of your new life in Christ."
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
There is nothing Scriptural nor honorable about the first half.
LOL whole Lotta scripture twisting here and gymnastics going on. It's simple...God's Holy Spirit convicts of sin and draws all men to Christ...JOHN wrote explicitly about His work
John 16:7-9 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me;
So we all have a choice...how can one disobey the Gospel of you're forced into not believing it (By forced i mean by default, having no other option)? These are logical fallacies and to say other wise you would be being intellectually dishonest.
And quoting Romans 9 would be doing biblical exegesis an injustice
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Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
That happens a lot unfortunately...
What EXACTLY is the work of the Holy Spirit toward the world?
There is not a single word offering Salvation in that list given by Christ included in that work of the Holy Spirit toward the world.
Again, the "freedom of choice" argument is strung out as some God given ability innate to every humankind. Yet, even on the surface such is not the case.
Even the most liberal theologians must erect some unscriptural "preceding grace" theory which God uses to magically life someone into an awareness of the claims of Christ that they may freely choose. There is absolutely NO Scripture support for "freedom of choice" or "prevenient / preceding grace."
Such is pie in the sky hope to convince someone hell bound that they might have some false claim of salvation because of someone who made them say some words and they don't even remember what they repeated.
Neither one of you have proved that I twisted any Scripture.
Rather, you pull a verse out and proclaim it means what it never intended and then pretend that it proves your some claim.
If you think I am wrong, open a thread and then lets compare Scriptures with Scriptures.
Show that John 1 does not state:
9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
There has never been not ever will be a humankind saved by:
The will of the flesh.
The will of the man.
The status of birth or birth order.
The amount of sacrifices even of blood that person can make.
I don't have to quote Romans 9. John 6 will do nicely. The will of the man.
The status of birth or birth order.
The amount of sacrifices even of blood that person can make.
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
So to whom is the authority over salvation given?
Who is both the AUTHOR and FINISHER of the faith?
Your claim of "twisting Scriptures" is shameful, for it is false and worthy of no more of my time.
If you don't mind, I'd like to condense my answer to this. You are assuming a "head decision" and a "heart decision" are different. As a trichotomist I disagree. Both the mind (seat of the intellect) and the heart (seat of the emotions) are part of the soul. But in trichotomy decisions are made with the will, not the mind or heart. So when I refer to a decision I mean an act of the will, not the mind or heart.
Both!
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind the Biblical language expressed in the text above is contrasting post conversion relationship and behavior with pre conversion relationship and behavior; 'know not God'; 'obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ' with the opposite being true only for the converted. That said it would be incorrect to say this verse proves Gospel/Christ rejection.
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I like what Charles Spurgeon had to say about the growing popularity of wanting to go to the "inquiry room."
"I dare say you would, but we are not willing to pander to popular superstition. We fear that in those rooms men are warmed into a fictitious confidence. Very few of the supposed converts of inquiry rooms turn out well. Go to your God at once, even where you are now. Cast yourself on Christ, now, at once; er you stir an inch."
Spurgeon: Prince of Preachers By Lewis A. Drummond, page 309.
"I dare say you would, but we are not willing to pander to popular superstition. We fear that in those rooms men are warmed into a fictitious confidence. Very few of the supposed converts of inquiry rooms turn out well. Go to your God at once, even where you are now. Cast yourself on Christ, now, at once; er you stir an inch."
Spurgeon: Prince of Preachers By Lewis A. Drummond, page 309.
I see the use of the inquiry room as a place were information can be given to the new believer to begin a discipleship program.
It provides for the initial contact between the new convert and an elder who will "take them under their wing" to mentor, and be a spiritual leader.
Do you think John wrote In relationship to order(Sequence) of events?
John1:9-
Received Christ
Those who Received Christ, Believed/Faithed/Trusted in HIM (becuase of the Light of the Gospel) He "Granted them Right" to become Children of God...Grace, Grace, and MOre grace...
Even to who? Those who Believed on His name (Already happened to receive Christ and be born again)
Who caused this Supernatural EVENT To Occur? GOD. This event is NOT BELEIVING, but BECOMING A CHILD OF GOD....Grace, Grace Grace..I Can't make myself become a child of God...No tithes, no offerings, no church attendance no prayer or fasting...but GOD causes me to be born again...How? By Grace Through Faith. IN God's Sovereignty, He has given me the Ability to Choose Him or Reject Him....
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