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Jerry Walls wicked and profane question about God

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JonShaff

JonShaff

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SovereignGrace said:
John Wesley? Srsly? The goofball that believed we could attain sinless perfection in this life?

Bwahahahahahaha!!! Better get a better guy to slander us than that goofball.
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to be Fair--he said John Wesley addressed "calvinism" as a theology. I do not think it is fair to call him a goofball.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

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bluejx said:
Calvinism invites the question. Some Calvinist who deny that they are hyper-Calvinist affirm determinism. This essentially mean that God, by His eternal decree, has arbitrarily decided from before creation to save some and to eternally damn the greater number to hell. But not only this but everything that comes to pass is unchangeaby destined to occur by His design. So when Jeffrey Dommer ate his boyfriends, that was part of that design.

I think Calvinists should be honest and own the implications of their own doctrines.

John Wesley was right when he said Calvinism portrays God as more evil than Satan.

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Adam, whilst in the Garden, represented all his posterity as their Federal Head. Adam and Eve were the only humans ever to be sinless. Even while she was sinless, she showed she loved herself more than she did her God. When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.[Genesis 3:6,7] Eve fell for the Serpent's lie and saw that the ToK could make her wise. She placed herself before Her God, even BEFORE she ate of that tree. Until this day, ppl, in their fallen state, place themselves ahead of their God.

Mankind fell into sin from that point in time. Man's heart, in its fallen condition, does not love God, but sin. It was not because of God, but because Adam sinned, and we being in Adam, sinned as well.
 
JonShaff

JonShaff

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SovereignGrace said:
Well, anyone who says we could attain sinless perfection is a goofball. If I averred it, I'd be a goofball.
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I guess I'll just derail this thread some more lol...I believe Wesley's followers went a bit far with what he hypothesized. If I remember correctly (and some times I do not :) ) he was not 100% convinced of sinless-perfection in this life, but considered it a potential reality. This is similar to Calvin's followers--they took what he said and made a 5-point theology out of some things he commented on.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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SovereignGrace said:
God will deal with them and not do them wrong. Now, if they have the stain of Original Sin, and all do through the fall of Adam, then what?
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I don’t know, you tell me!

Does God... take a human being, entombed them in inability, punish them on this earth, then send them to hell?
 
utilyan

utilyan

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Iconoclast said:
In a closed Zombie thread....this person was set forth with what was to be a supposed refutation of Calvinism. at around the 3:45 - 4:30 mark he asks his asinine question which was...

Could God be just if He passes over persons....{ who Walls believes God could save] but does not save them?? His wording is...that they are "His fallen Children"...He passes over them even though He could save them...then gets glory tormenting them in Hell.
This is the Kind of idiotic question that gets dragged out, time and time again by those who hate the truth of God.

The question is profane ...in that it poses the Thought that our Holy, Omniscient God....would not have made a perfectly, Holy , wise and just choice in saving the multitude He has indeed purposed and decreed to save.
This and all these imposters calling themselves traditionalists are taking the position of Paul's objector in Romans 9 and blaming God for man's sin, then putting forth that they themselves know better than God Himself.
What a shameful disgrace that such a person mouths his wicked objections against our great God.
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Doesn't compare to the insult Calvinist say all the time. Calvinist are SHOCKED and SURPRISED God would save anyone.

The insult is Calvinist expect God to forgive no one.

Its just so shocking! God is halfways merciful when one expected God to be merciless.


Can't think of a better way to call God a Jerk then how Calvinist do it.
 
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bluejx

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JonShaff said:
I guess I'll just derail this thread some more lol...I believe Wesley's followers went a bit far with what he hypothesized. If I remember correctly (and some times I do not :) ) he was not 100% convinced of sinless-perfection in this life, but considered it a potential reality. This is similar to Calvin's followers--they took what he said and made a 5-point theology out of some things he commented on.
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Calvin was not a 5 point Calvinist.

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Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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JonShaff said:
I guess I'll just derail this thread some more lol...I believe Wesley's followers went a bit far with what he hypothesized. If I remember correctly (and some times I do not :) ) he was not 100% convinced of sinless-perfection in this life, but considered it a potential reality. This is similar to Calvin's followers--they took what he said and made a 5-point theology out of some things he commented on.
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Thank God
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

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Earth Wind and Fire said:
I don’t know, you tell me!

Does God... take a human being, entombed them in inability, punish them on this earth, then send them to hell?
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Not one deserving person goes to heaven. What makes you think someone, even babies and those who are incapable of anything, gets a pass?

I don't think they go to hell, but I don't see they get an automatic pass into heaven, either. I just leave these in God's hand, where it rightly belongs.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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SovereignGrace said:
Not one deserving person goes to heaven. What makes you think someone, even babies and those who are incapable of anything, gets a pass?

I don't think they go to hell, but I don't see they get an automatic pass into heaven, either. I just leave these in God's hand, where it rightly belongs.
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I see.... a purgatory supporter
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

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Earth Wind and Fire said:
I see.... a purgatory supporter
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Well, when God told Samuel to tell Saul Then Samuel said to Saul, “The LORD sent me to anoint you as king over His people, over Israel; now therefore, listen to the words of the LORD. Thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”[1 Samuel 15:1-3] God saw all the Amalekites as the enemies of His ppl, even children and infants.

If a baby, upon death, is automatically ushered into heaven, then allowing that child to grow to die lost is utterly cruel. I am not saying they go to hell, but I am not ready to usher them automatically into heaven, either. That is betwixt them and the Lord.
 
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