Jesus and the death Penalty?

[Zaac]

This is where your misunderstanding of scripture is most shown. What was the context of "all who have sinned"? Salvation or government?

Apparently it's your misunderstanding of Scripture too because the context is talking about favoritism and being convicted as a lawbreaker. It says nothing about salvation. But rather deals with how WE TREAT others based upon what they have done.

This again goes right back to what we've discussed on here before about how much of the Church thinks the homosexual and the drug addict etc are so much worse sinners to the point of us creating 21st century lepers.

This Scripture deals with the same thing. Many in the Church like many on this board seem to think that the sin of others is worse than their own. And thus you hypocritically lessen your own judgment while being okay for someone else, whom Scripture says has broken the same law, for their punishment to be death.

That's favoritism wrapped in unrighteous judgment.

So deal with what the text says if you want to talk about CON-TEXT.

If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. James 2:8-9

If you love yourself enough to not warrant the death penalty for your sin, then love your neighbor enough to not warrant the death penalty for his equal sin.

You break one, you break them all.

 

[Zaac]

Breaking one is the same as breaking them all; this is true. But this is meant in regards to our salvation, not our physical presence on this earth.

Where does that Scripture say anything in regards to salvation? It is specifically dealing with how people treat other people and favoritism.

 

[Yeshua1]

The position you articulate here is quite problematic, for it shows an unfortunate lack of understanding about the Law itself.

The injunction to pursue the death penalty against those who commit murder is pre-Law, and, as such, would also be post-law.

The "Stoning adulterers" is a strawman at best because you are, literally, comparing apples and oranges.

The Archangel

wasn't the instutition of both marriageas being betweena man and woman, and the death penalty, given by god before ANy law was given by God?

So jesus COULD have changed that original mandate . but chose not to?

So still unde the prohibition that for cpaital crime, person should die?

 

[Yeshua1]

Where does that Scripture say anything in regards to salvation? It is specifically dealing with how people treat other people and favoritism.

death for murder before the law, so God was proscribing His cure for that problem in society, problem is that we don't heed Him on it!

God was not into trying to get to psyco analysis why hilter tried to exterminite the jews, he would just have had him executed!

what is the reason why executing murderers bad? if god allowed for it, even demanded it, why the fuss?

 

[Zaac]

This concept is found in Psalm 14: 1-3. That is the Old Testament. This idea that if someone has broken any part of the law they have broken the whole law is not new to the New Testament. Capital punishment was allowed in the Old Testament. I don't see where it has been repealed. This is where your argument has failed.

Again, people argue opinions. I'm stating Biblical fact. I have not once said that capital punishment was not allowed in the OT. Divorce was also allowed in the OT.

But God always gave His directive to the Jews to do so as a way of keeping them separate from their enemies. He has not done that in the NT and shows Scripturally why HE has not given us the authority to do so.

 

[Yeshua1]

Again, people argue opinions. I'm stating Biblical fact. I have not once said that capital punishment was not allowed in the OT. Divorce was also allowed in the OT.

But God always gave His directive to the Jews to do so as a way of keeping them separate from their enemies. He has not done that in the NT and shows Scripturally why HE has not given us the authority to do so.

God proscribed the death penalty BEFORE the law, so that would NOT be based upon the OT/old or new Covenant, but upon a Universal law to apply, same way for marriage!

 

[InTheLight]

Again, people argue opinions. I'm stating Biblical fact. I have not once said that capital punishment was not allowed in the OT. Divorce was also allowed in the OT.

But God always gave His directive to the Jews to do so as a way of keeping them separate from their enemies. He has not done that in the NT and shows Scripturally why HE has not given us the authority to do so.

Do you want to address my point, which is:

I don't see where [capital punishment] has been repealed.

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you want to address my point, which is:

I don't see where [capital punishment] has been repealed.

it never was, as the lord thru Paul stated in Romans its an option for the governments that was ordained by God!

 

[Don]

Apparently it's your misunderstanding of Scripture too because the context is talking about favoritism and being convicted as a lawbreaker. It says nothing about salvation. But rather deals with how WE TREAT others based upon what they have done.

That's willful blindness and ignorance. Being convicted as a lawbreaker IN WHAT FASHION? Spiritually, or against the society?

The law was a schoolmaster, but after Jesus, we are no longer under the law. Does this statement mean we no longer need any laws whatsoever?

 

[Zaac]

Do you want to address my point, which is:

I don't see where [capital punishment] has been repealed.

I didn't say it was repealed. I said God isn't giving man His okay to righteously kill as a directive from Him as He did in the OT.

It was okay then because it was HIM making the judgment and telling men to carry it out. That is not he case now.

 

[Zaac]

That's willful blindness and ignorance.

You mean on your part? Cause you seem to be doing a really good job of making the scripture say what you want it to instead of what the words on the page say.

 

[The Archangel]

I didn't say it was repealed. I said God isn't giving man His okay to righteously kill as a directive from Him as He did in the OT.

It was okay then because it was HIM making the judgment and telling men to carry it out. Than is not he case now.

But these statements are demonstrating a further misunderstanding:

1. Individuals are prohibited from committing murder and acts of homicide (either by omission or commission).

2. Governments, on the other hand, are permitted to enforce the aforementioned prohibitions through capital punishment.

That a government is given this permission implies an understanding of due process. Individuals and lynch mobs do not exercise due process, but governments do, some to lesser extents and some to greater extents.

The Archangel

 

[InTheLight]

I didn't say it was repealed. I said God isn't giving man His okay to righteously kill as a directive from Him as He did in the OT.

A distinction without a difference.

It was okay then because it was HIM making the judgment and telling men to carry it out. Than is not he case now.

So you're saying that every case of capital punishment in the O.T. was a direct order from God to men? That human judges did not mete out capital punishment?

 

[InTheLight]

You mean on your part? Cause you seem to be doing a really good job of making the scripture say what you want it to instead of what the words on the page say.

 

[Zaac]

A distinction without a difference.

Call it what you like.

So you're saying that every case of capital punishment in the O.T. was a direct order from God to men? That human judges did not mete out capital punishment?

Every act of RIGHTEOUS judgment where capital punishment was meted out came from God to the people he had given the wisdom to carry out HIS command.

 

[InTheLight]

Every act of RIGHTEOUS judgment where capital punishment was meted out came from God to the people he had given the wisdom to carry out HIS command.

Scripture verse(s)?

 

[Zaac]

Scripture verse(s)?

Umm it's the OT. Start at the front and work your way back and see how many times he tells Moses to destroy a people. The same with Joshua. The same with Samuel,etc, etc.

 

[InTheLight]

Umm it's the OT. Start at the front and work your way back and see how many times he tells Moses to destroy a people. The same with Joshua. The same with Samuel,etc, etc.

Yes, I see when someone challenges you to provide proof you decline. Same old Zaac. Anyway, I am familiar with those instances of direct commands from God but are you saying that there was NEVER an instance of a Jewish murderer, or other capital criminal, condemned to death by a human judge (or king)?

 

[Don]

You mean on your part? Cause you seem to be doing a really good job of making the scripture say what you want it to instead of what the words on the page say.

That's funny, because in each of my last few posts I've made to you, I referenced scripture--and in each of your responses back, you ignored the scripture references...and made none yourself.

 

[Zaac]

Yes, I see when someone challenges you to provide proof you decline. Same old Zaac.

Yes same old Zaac. And yall the same lazy group of folks who think folks have to convince you of what God's word says. Look it up yourself. I don't particularly care if no one does though.:smilewinkgrin:

Anyway, I am familiar with those instances of direct commands from God but are you saying that there was NEVER an instance of a Jewish murderer, or other capital criminal, condemned to death by a human judge (or king)?

I already said what I intended to say. If that's what you think I'm attempting to say, then prove or disprove it and make your point.