Jesus and the death Penalty?

[Zaac]

That's funny, because in each of my last few posts I've made to you, I referenced scripture--and in each of your responses back, you ignored the scripture references...and made none yourself.

What's funny is you continue to say that the Scripture is about salvation and there is no mention of salvation. Look back through the thread and where I have quoted Scripture.

It's you who seems to be ignoring what the Scripture ACTUALLY says in order to try and justify what you think is the truth.

 

[Don]

What's funny is you continue to say that the Scripture is about salvation and there is no mention of salvation. Look back through the thread and where I have quoted Scripture.

It's you who seems to be ignoring what the Scripture ACTUALLY says in order to try and justify what you think is the truth.

Try addressing the scripture I've specifically referenced to you.

 

[Zaac]

Try addressing the scripture I've specifically referenced to you.

Right after you try addressing the Scripture addressed to you using what the words on the page say as opposed to what you want it to say.

 

[Don]

Right after you try addressing the Scripture addressed to you using what the words on the page say as opposed to what you want it to say.

Which scripture is it that you think I haven't addressed?

 

[Oldtimer]

Which scripture is it that you think I haven't addressed?

Don, what is the point of continuing to discuss this with Zaac? It's quite apparent that he is deliberately ignoring the distinction drawn between individual acts and governmental due process. He is deliberately ignoring what was entailed with the when/where/what of God's law(s) to goven mankind. That's evident when he won't use the term mankind (or something similar) make that distinction, when applicable.

If he were a simple layman, like myself, I probably wouldn't be making this post. There's so much more for me to learn. Zaac, on the other hand, has probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about any/every aspect of the Bible and the awesome power of our Almighty God.

So, it's, IMO, kinda hard to give him the benefit of the doubt, as it grows more apparent that ............ left unsaid.

Why continue, Don?

 

[Yeshua1]

Umm it's the OT. Start at the front and work your way back and see how many times he tells Moses to destroy a people. The same with Joshua. The same with Samuel,etc, etc.

what about the Capital punishment God saunction BEFORE the Law/OT itself though?

 

[Yeshua1]

Right after you try addressing the Scripture addressed to you using what the words on the page say as opposed to what you want it to say.

is it OK to have God using His AUTHORIZED party to execute his own judgement, as in Murder?

 

[Zaac]

is it OK to have God using His AUTHORIZED party to execute his own judgement, as in Murder?

He did so in the OT with the Jews. That I know of, He isn't giving any man the direct commandment to exact HIS judgment of death upon anyone in the New Testament.

The directive to kill came from Him or one who had received the word from Him.

 

[InTheLight]

He did so in the OT with the Jews. That I know of, He isn't giving any man the direct commandment to exact HIS judgment of death upon anyone in the New Testament.

Is this not a general instruction from God that murderers should be put to death?

Gen. 9: 6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood,By man his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God He made man.


Perfect time for Jesus to clarify the death penalty issue here, but didn't change anything:

Matt 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’

Paul didn't refute the government's ability to carry out capital punishment:

Acts 25:10 So Paul said, “I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you very well know. 11 For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying;

In fact, Paul affirmed it:

Romans 13: 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

 

[Yeshua1]

Is this not a general instruction from God that murderers should be put to death?

Gen. 9: 6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood,By man his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God He made man.


Perfect time for Jesus to clarify the death penalty issue here, but didn't change anything:

Matt 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’

Paul didn't refute the government's ability to carry out capital punishment:

Acts 25:10 So Paul said, “I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you very well know. 11 For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying;

In fact, Paul affirmed it:

Romans 13: 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

WHAt under the new Covenant is violated by God demanding that a murderer forfeit his own life?

IF you take that avenue, you almost end up with the God of the OT and the jesus of the NT being 2 different Gods, as OT was into killing, while jesus was meek and mild and against that!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I've been away from this thread for a while, but it is certainly unbecoming to see so many bloodthirsty, vengeful Christians who cannot see a difference in the ethics of Jesus and what was done in the OT.

What is one to do when Jesus says “You have heard it said of old, but I say to you”? I follow what Jesus taught.

And what is one to do with a rebellious son? Stone him to death as in Deut 21:18-21?

Or treat him as Jesus taught in the Prodigal Son parable. I’ll go with Jesus.

 

[Zaac]

Is this not a general instruction from God that murderers should be put to death?

Gen. 9: 6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood,By man his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God He made man.


Perfect time for Jesus to clarify the death penalty issue here, but didn't change anything:

Matt 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’

Paul didn't refute the government's ability to carry out capital punishment:

Acts 25:10 So Paul said, “I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you very well know. 11 For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying;

In fact, Paul affirmed it:

Romans 13: 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

Again, where did I say He changed anything or that the death penalty went away? God can command penalty unto death through the authorities if He so chooses the same way that He did with Moses and Joshua and Samuel and the other prophets.

But has He?

God does not author confusion. To say that one is guilty unto death for breaking the same law that we are all guilty of breaking but that we aren't would make someone a hypocrite. And that someone ain't God.

Naah. You get this kind of hypocrisy because of man's wickedness that we try to excuse as Godly.

 

[Yeshua1]

Again, where did I say He changed anything or that the death penalty went away? God can command penalty unto death through the authorities if He so chooses the same way that He did with Moses and Joshua and Samuel and the other prophets.

But has He?

God does not author confusion. To say that one is guilty unto death for breaking the same law that we are all guilty of breaking but that we aren't would make someone a hypocrite. And that someone ain't God.

Naah. You get this kind of hypocrisy because of man's wickedness that we try to excuse as Godly.

God can choose to extend grace to a killer, and save him, but also have him executed for his crimes!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

God can choose to extend grace to a killer, and save him, but also have him executed for his crimes!

What would Jesus do? Would Jesus pull the lever or administer the injection?

 

[Yeshua1]

What would Jesus do? Would Jesus pull the lever or administer the injection?

The SAME jesus that died for my sins and is my saviour/Lord is the SAME one who will also cast siiners to hell in judgement,
in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 esv

So don't think he would see the conflict here as some seem to!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

The SAME jesus that died for my sins and is my saviour/Lord is the SAME one who will also cast siiners to hell in judgement,
in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 esv

So don't think he would see the conflict here as some seem to!

You didn't answer my question. Would the Jesus who spoke the words of the Sermon on the Mount throw the lever or administer the injection?

 

[Yeshua1]

You didn't answer my question. Would the Jesus who spoke the words of the Sermon on the Mount throw the lever or administer the injection?

IF the person was gulity of first degree murder, yes he would, since he is the same One who instituted that as the punishement for that crime!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

IF the person was gulity of first degree murder, yes he would, since he is the same One who instituted that as the punishement for that crime!

I disagree, and I don't think you can reconcile your belief with the ethical and moral teachings of Jesus.

 

[Don]

You didn't answer my question. Would the Jesus who spoke the words of the Sermon on the Mount throw the lever or administer the injection?

Are we talking about the same Jesus who fashioned a whip of cords?

 

[Yeshua1]

Are we talking about the same Jesus who fashioned a whip of cords?

and ordered Sodom and Gommoruh to be destroyed?