Particular
Well-Known Member
Yep, I quoted them already.
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Jesus Christ was Born of Woman . . . fact or fiction?
- Thread starter JoeT
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You ever finished school? I question whether you know how to read.
The mechanics at God's disposal are not in question. he could have beamed down human, he could have been torpedoed from the sea, he could have been born out of a cow.
THIS IS THE ISSUE ----> line of King David. You are insisting Jesus is born contrary to scriptures.
Joseph is not the FATHER of Jesus Christ. The MOTHER determines if you are Jewish or Not. You can have Jewish Father + Gentile mother = GENTILE CHILD.
The system does not follow PAGAN WESTERN MONARCHY. For example the queen is the MOTHER not the wife.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Please post them again or link to them.
If you have truly found Scripture stating Mary had other children and Jesus therefore had uterine siblings, get ready for your life to change. For your discovery will shake the Christian world and you will be quite famous and in high demand worldwide.
JoeT
Member
While it may be true that Joseph was the father, with siblings or not, Mary's womb is the womb of God. Hence your fictitious siblings would have been raised in the womb of God, demigods.
JoeT
Particular
Well-Known Member
I have already posted them twice on this thread.
Matthew 13:55-56 Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”
Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.
God tells you their names and you pretzel to claim God lied and these brothers and sisters aren't really Mary and Joseph's kids.
Roman Catholic denial is amazing when their church dogma is in contradiction with the Bible.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
This was already refuted here ---> www.baptistboard.com/threads/jesus-christ-was-born-of-woman-fact-or-fiction.114091/page-5#post-2546488
Scripture shows James, Joseph, Simon and Judas were the sons of Mary Cleophas and not Mary of Nazareth.
---> Mt 27:56
---> Mk 15:40
Thus they could not be uterine siblings of Jesus since they have a different mother. As you have been taught in these threads, the use of “brother” in Jewish culture in antiquity had a much broader use than we use today. You see "brother" and erroneously impose your Westernized concept of a family unit (i.e. a nuclear family) onto an ancient Hebrew / Semitic (tribal) culture.
Here are scholars describing early archaeological excavation of homes in Israel affirming this..
"The units comprising the village mispahah, or kinship group, were the families of early Israel. Because these families were agriculturists, their identity and survival were integrally connected with their material world - more specifically, with their arable land, their implements for working the land and processing its products, and their domiciles - as well as with the human and also animal components of the domestic group. In many ways, the term family household is more useful in dealing with early Israelite families (although that would not be the case for the monarchical period and later, when domestic unites were more varied in their spatial aspects and economic functions). Combining family, with its kingship meanings, and household, a more flexible term including both coresident and economic functions, has descriptive merit. The family household thus included a set of related people as well as residential buildings, outbuildings, tools, equipment, fields, livestock, and orchards; it sometimes also included household members who were not kin, such as "sojourners", war captives and servants." - Families in Ancient Israel: The Family in Early Israel, Carol Meyers, pgs. 13-14
"These dwelling clusters constitute evidence for a family unit in early Israel larger than that of the nuclear family (or conjugal couple with unmarried offspring). Each pillared house in a cluster may represent the living space of a nuclear family or parts thereof, but the shared courtyard space and common house walls of the linked buildings indicate a larger family grouping. Early Israelite dwelling unites were thus complex arrangements of several buildings and housed what we might call extended families. Furthermore, thee compound dwelling unites were not isolated buildings within a settlement of single-family homes." - Ibid, pg. 16
"The family was never so 'nuclear' as it is in the modern West." - Families in Ancient Israel: Marriage, Divorce and Family in Second Temple Judaism, John J. Collins, pg. 106
Source
Now, do you have Scripture identifying uterine siblings of Jesus?
Would God have countenanced the Ark of the Covenant to be used to carry within it normal everyday things? Of course not. Mary could really have been the new "Ark of the Covenant" and as such would never had been allowed to produce any other normal everyday children. Her mission in life was to bear the Redeemer and raise Him up without any other responsibilities.
The same for her husband Joseph who was more likely to have been an older man, perhaps a widower, whose sole mission in life was to help raise and protect the Redeemer. As for those "brothers and sisters" that you brought up that are mentioned in the Holy Writ could the words actually mean Jesus's half - siblings?
Yep, that's it, so now I have resolved the argument and now we can all sleep soundly tonight.
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Not if you understand that many scholars believe Luke's genealogy narrative to be that of Mary and not Joseph.
STUDY your Bible.
God is a spirit, not the physical body of Jesus, He was just like us
Heb 4 15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
both lineages are present, one is of Mary the other Joseph, The claim to David's throne is though Mary
Yes - that was my point.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
"Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, which faces east; and it was shut. And he said to me, 'This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.'" (Ezekiel 44:1–2)
JoeT
Member
Unfortunately for your theory original sin doesn't come from DNA, else we could cure it or breed it out. We inherit original sin as being progeny of Adam, a member of the human species. Original sin is not 'transmitted', as if it were, a human virus from male or female (one or both gender) to their offspring, both punishment and guilt handed down from generation to generation. Rather, it is a condition of being a member of the human species after the fall of Adam. We use the term inherited only to explain that all of mankind, except One, after Adam's fall receives the effects of God's justice without the guilt, whereby we receive from Adam a privation of sanctification. In this way, a child born, even from a process of cloning, without father or mother, is subject to original sin. Conversely, a child born whose Father is the Spirit of God and whose mother is one without the stain of the soul causing a privation of sanctification, (i.e. a New Eve,) a human like Adam prior to the fall in perfect union with God, i.e Christ. St. Thomas Aquinas address it this way:
"An individual can be considered either as an individual or as part of a whole, a member of a society . . . . Considered in the second way an act can be his although he has not done it himself, nor has it been done by his free will but by the rest of the society or by its head, the nation being considered as doing what the prince does. For a society is considered as a single man of whom the individuals are the different members (St. Paul, 1 Corinthians 12). Thus the multitude of men who receive their human nature from Adam is to be considered as a single community or rather as a single body . . . . If the man, whose privation of original justice is due to Adam, is considered as a private person, this privation is not his 'fault', for a fault is essentially voluntary. If, however, we consider him as a member of the family of Adam, as if all men were only one man, then his privation partakes of the nature of sin on account of its voluntary origin, which is the actual sin of Adam" (De Malo, 4, 1).
A worldly example would be a nation lead by a king entering war with its neighbor. The king loses the war and forced to levee a tax on all his people to pay the reparations. Every person in the kingdom, even those born after the war, receives the guilt and pay for the punishment of the king's sin against his neighbor.
Consequently, your theory doesn't hold water. Even by magic, being a man, a member of the human clan, Christ inherits, as it were, both the guilt and the punishment of would be Christ's, except and unless Mary herself is the New Eve without the stain of sin. She carries the Divine Child like the Ark of the Covenant, across the dark seas of sin like the Ark of Noa to the shores of your salvation.
So, you see Jesus Christ will not be 'reinvented' rather you must be regenerated in the Body of Christ. It's done in Baptism were one begins and ends a journey of justification unto perfection.
JoeT
sin is not physical and thus not inheritable, It is spiritual, Did you get your soul from your Father?
Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
JoeT
Member
Jesus Christ was not hypostatic union of God and man? What kind of thing was Jesus Christ?
I think you should re-read my previous post if you are interested in understanding what was said.
JoeT
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Walpole
Well-Known Member
I think the FrankenLogos is about to appear!
JoeT
Member
Leftover from Halloween, FranekenLogos, lurking in the dark recesses of the mind of those who would make and unmake gods.
JoeT
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