John 5:25-29??

[psalms109:31]

Sometimes we can be so rigid. This is what we had been taught and teach for seven thousands years, so we can't be wrong, even if God comes down from heaven and lives with us and say's we are.


John 6:
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”



There is no difference from another we are all dead, we need other life to live and to have energy to live. We don't have life within ourselves we live on and by an outside source, without this we would die. This is called sacrifice that we live by. The same thing Spiritual, but this life can only come from Jesus.

We are dead the scripture says we are, but we can still accept the food offered to us and for us to live, without this food we have no energy and die.

The Holy Spirit does not need and outside source to live, but is the source of life for us in and through Jesus Christ.

We have no life in us it is in Jesus Christ

"for he says: "Ye will not come to me that ye might have life." There is no life in God the Father for a sinner; there is no life in God the Spirit for a sinner apart from Jesus. The life of a sinner is in Christ. If you take the Father apart from the Son, though he loves his elect, and decrees that they shall live, yet life is only in his Son. If you take God the Spirit apart from Jesus Christ, though it is the Spirit that gives us spiritual life, yet it is life in Christ, life in the Son. We dare not, and cannot apply in the first place, either to God the Father, or to God the Holy Ghost for spiritual life. The first thing we are led to do when God brings us out of Egypt is to eat the Passover—the very first thing. The first means whereby we get life is by feeding upon the flesh and blood of the Son of God; living in him, trusting on him, believing in his grace and power. Our second thought was—there is life in Christ"

C.H. Spurgeon

 

[Winman]

Thanks for that Spurgeon quote Psalms, Spurgeon knew what I am talking about, there is no "life" outside of Christ. No person is spiritually alive UNTIL they place faith in Jesus.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Calvinists teach that a man is made a new creature before he trusts in Christ. Calvinism teaches a man must be made a new creature before he is able to trust Christ. But scripture says that only when we are "in Christ" are we a new creature.

Spurgeon understood this too;

The moment a sinner believes in Jesus he receives from God that selfsame life which shall look down serenely upon the conflagration of earth, and the passing away of those lower skies. Blessed is that man who hath everlasting life, who is made a partaker of the divine nature, who is born again from above, who is born of God by a seed which remaineth in him, for he is the man upon whom the second death hath no power, who shall enjoy life eternal when the wicked go away into everlasting punishment.

Spurgeon taught that the moment a sinner believes he receives life. Only then is he is born again by God.

No one is born again before they place faith in Jesus. Faith precedes regeneration or life. To say you have life before faith in Jesus is to claim life outside of Christ.

 

[OldRegular]

My Spurgeon trumps your Spurgeon! [Part 1]

Spurgeon humbly preached the Doctrine of Grace [He called Calvinism a nickname for this Biblical Doctrine.] including regeneration or "the New Birth" apart from any action on man's part. Spurgeon also preached Faith and all that entails. He understood that Faith is an essential aspect of the Doctrine of Grace and Salvation and that Faith is a gift of God. Some on this Forum seem to be unable to understand that Regeneration by the Holy Spirit and the gift and exercise of Faith are essential aspects of Salvation. I have presented that aspect as follows:

CONVERSION by OldRegular

Conversion is the result of conscious act of a regenerate person in which he responds to the Gospel, and turns to God in faith and repentance. [The Gospel call becomes the effectual call!] In conversion the regenerate man exercizes the gift of faith bestowed upon regeneration. Regeneration must precede conversion since Scripture tells us: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [1 Corinthians 2:14] It is important to realize that conversion is a personal experience of a regenerate person with Holy God. Therefore, since no two people are alike we should not expect that they will have the same conversion experience. God saves people one at a time! Jesus Christ explains conversion in the following manner:

John 3:16, KJV
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The Apostle Paul explains conversion simply as follows:

Romans 10:9, KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It is inevitable that a person who has experienced regeneration [the new birth] he will also respond to the effectual call and be converted. Conversion is in reality an acknowledgment that one has experienced the grace of regeneration. As the believer grows in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ [2 Peter 3:18] he will come to more fully understand all the the grace bestowed with Salvation and, though they are freely bestowed, hopefully he will come to understand the infinite love demonstrated in the actual cost of Salvation.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A Sermon
(No. 130)
Delivered on Sabbath Morning, May 3, 1857, by the
REV. C.*H. Spurgeon
at the Music Hall, Royal Surrey Gardens.

From: http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0130.htm

"Except a man be born again, he can not see the kingdom of God."—John 3:3.

Neither is a man regenerated, we say, in the next place, by his own exertions. A man may reform himself very much, and that is well and good; let all do that. A man may cast away many vices, forsake many lusts in which he indulged, and conquer evil habits; but no man in the world can make himself to be born in God; though he should struggle never so much, he could never accomplish what is beyond his power. And, mark you, if he could make himself to be born again still he would not enter heaven, because there is another point in the condition which he would have violated—"unless a man be born of the Spirit, he can not see the kingdom of God." So that the best exertions of the flesh do not reach this high point, the being born again of the Spirit of God.

And now we must say, that regeneration consists in this. God the Holy Spirit, in a supernatural manner—mark, by the word supernatural I mean just what it strictly means; supernatural, more than natural—works upon the hearts of men, and they by the operations of the divine Spirit become regenerate men; but without the Spirit they never can be regenerated. And unless God the Holy Spirit, who "worketh in us to will and to do," should operate upon the will and the conscience, regeneration is an absolute impossibility, and therefore so is salvation. "What!" says one, "do you mean to say that God absolutely interposes in the salvation of every man to make him regenerate?" I do indeed; in the salvation of every person there is an actual putting forth of the divine power, whereby the dead sinner is quickened, the unwilling sinner is made willing, the desperately hard sinner has his conscience made tender; and he who rejected God and despised Christ, is brought to cast himself down at the feet of Jesus. This is called fanatical doctrine, mayhap; that we can not help; it is scriptural doctrine, that is enough for us. "Except a man be born of the Spirit he can not see the kingdom of God; that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." If you like it not, quarrel with my Master, not with me; I do but simply declare his own revelation, that there must be in your heart something more than you can ever work there. There must be a divine operation; call it a miraculous operation, if you please; it is in some sense so. There must be a divine interposition, a divine working, a divine influence, or else, do what you may, without that you perish, and are undone; "for except a man be born again, be can not see the kingdom of God." The change is radical; it gives us new natures, makes us love what we hated and hate what we loved, sets us in a new road; makes our habits different, our thoughts different, makes us different in private, and different in public. So that being in Christ it is fulfilled: "If any man be in Christ he is a new creature; old things are passed away, behold all things are become new."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


ON REGENERATION

Charles H. Spurgeon

From: http://www.founders.org/journal/fj48/article5_fr.html

[Some of the language has been updated for the modern reader.]

The first work of the Spirit in the heart is a work during which the Spirit is compared to the wind. You remember that when our Savior spoke to Nicodemus he represented the first work of the Spirit in the heart as being like the wind that "blows where it wishes;" "so" he says, "is every one who is born of the Spirit." Now you know that the wind is a most mysterious thing; and although certain definitions pretend to explain the phenomenon, all of them leave the great question of how the wind blows, and the cause of its blowing in a certain direction, where it was before. Breath within us, winds around us, all air movements are mysterious to us. And the renewing work of the Spirit in the heart is exceedingly mysterious.

It is possible that at this moment the Spirit of God may be breathing into some of the thousand hearts before me; yet it would be blasphemous if anyone should ask, "Which way did the Spirit of God enter into such a heart? How did it enter there?" And it would be foolish for a person who is under the operation of the Spirit to ask how it operates: you do not know where the storehouse of thunder is located; you do not know where the clouds are balanced; neither can you know how the Spirit goes forth from the Most High and enters into the heart of man.

It may be that during a sermon two men are listening to the same truth; one of them hears as attentively as the other and remembers as much of it; the other is melted to tears or moved with solemn thoughts; but the one, though equally attentive, sees nothing in the sermon except that certain important truths were clearly declared; as for the other, his heart is broken within him and his soul is melted. Ask me how it is that the same truth has an effect upon the one, and not upon his fellow: I reply, because the mysterious Spirit of the living God goes with the truth to one heart and not to the other. The one only feels the force of truth, and that may be strong enough to make him tremble, like Felix; but the other feels the Spirit going with the truth, and that renews and regenerates him, and causes him to enter into that gracious condition which is called the state of salvation.

This change takes place instantaneously. It is as miraculous a change as any miracle we read about in Scripture. It is supremely supernatural. It may be mimicked, but no imitation can be true and real. Men may pretend to be regenerated without the Spirit, but they cannot be regenerated in actuality. It is a change so marvelous that the highest attempts of man can never reach it. We may reason as long as we please, but we cannot reason ourselves into regeneration; we may meditate until our hairs are gray with study; but we cannot meditate ourselves into the new birth. The new birth is accomplished in us by the sovereign will of God alone.

"The Spirit, like some heavenly wind,
Blows on the sons of flesh,
Inspires us with a heavenly mind,
And forms the man afresh."

Ask the regenerate man how: he cannot tell you. Ask him when: he may recognize the time, but as to how he knows no more than you do. It is a mystery.

 

[OldRegular]

My Spurgeon trumps your Spurgeon! [Part 2]

Spurgeon humbly preached the Doctrine of Grace [He called Calvinism a nickname for this Biblical Doctrine.] including regeneration or "the New Birth" apart from any action on man's part. Spurgeon also preached Faith and all that entails. He understood that Faith is an essential aspect of the Doctrine of Grace and Salvation and that Faith is a gift of God. Some on this Forum seem to be unable to understand that Regeneration by the Holy Spirit and the gift and exercise of Faith are essential aspects of Salvation. I have presented that aspect as follows:

CONVERSION by OldRegular

Conversion is the result of conscious act of a regenerate person in which he responds to the Gospel, and turns to God in faith and repentance. [The Gospel call becomes the effectual call!] In conversion the regenerate man exercizes the gift of faith bestowed upon regeneration. Regeneration must precede conversion since Scripture tells us: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [1 Corinthians 2:14] It is important to realize that conversion is a personal experience of a regenerate person with Holy God. Therefore, since no two people are alike we should not expect that they will have the same conversion experience. God saves people one at a time! Jesus Christ explains conversion in the following manner:

John 3:16, KJV
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The Apostle Paul explains conversion simply as follows:

Romans 10:9, KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It is inevitable that a person who has experienced regeneration [the new birth] he will also respond to the effectual call and be converted. Conversion is in reality an acknowledgment that one has experienced the grace of regeneration. As the believer grows in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ [2 Peter 3:18] he will come to more fully understand all the the grace bestowed with Salvation and, though they are freely bestowed, hopefully he will come to understand the infinite love demonstrated in the actual cost of Salvation.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


13.0 REGENERATION AND THE HOLY SPIRIT

In the sermon by Spurgeon "All of Grace" I find the following insightful statement. Section 13, http://www.spurgeon.org/all_of_g.htm


"YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN.” This word of our Lord Jesus has appeared to flame in the way of many, like the drawn sword of the cherub at the gate of Paradise. They have despaired, because this change is beyond their utmost effort. The new birth is from above, and therefore it is not in the creature’s power. Now, it is far from my mind to deny, or ever to conceal, a truth in order to create a false comfort. I freely admit that the new birth is supernatural, and that it cannot be wrought by the sinner’s own self. It would be a poor help to my reader if I were wicked enough to try to cheer him by persuading him to reject or forget what is unquestionably true. But is it not remarkable that the very chapter in which our Lord makes this sweeping declaration also contains the most explicit statement as to salvation by faith? Read the third chapter of John’s Gospel and do not dwell alone upon its earlier sentences. It is true that the third verse says:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

But, then, the fourteenth and fifteenth verses speak:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

The eighteenth verse repeats the same doctrine in the broadest terms:

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It is clear to every reader that these two statements must agree, since they came from the same lips, and are recorded on the same inspired page. Why should we make a difficulty where there can be none? If one statement assures us of the necessity to salvation of a something, which only God can give, and if another assures us that the Lord will save us upon our believing in Jesus, then we may safely conclude that the Lord will give to those who believe all that is declared to be necessary to salvation. The Lord does, in fact, produce the new birth in all who believe in Jesus; and their believing is the surest evidence that they are born again. We trust in Jesus for what we cannot do ourselves: if it were in our own power, what need of looking to Him? It is ours to believe, it is the Lord’s to create us anew. He will not believe for us, neither are we to do regenerating work for Him. It is enough for us to obey the gracious command; it is for the Lord to work the new birth in us. He who could go so far as to die on the cross for us, can and will give us all things that are needful for our eternal safety.

“But a saving change of heart is the work of the Holy Spirit.” This also is most true, and let it be far from us to question it, or to forget it. But the work of the Holy Spirit is secret and mysterious, and it can only be perceived by its results. There are mysteries about our natural birth into which it would be an unhallowed curiosity to pry: still more is this the case with the sacred operations of the Spirit of God. “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, or whither it goeth; so is every one that is born of theSpirit.” This much, however, we do know - the mysterious work of theHoly Spirit cannot be a reason for refusing to believe in Jesus to whom that same Spirit beareth witness.

If a man were bidden to sow a field, he could not excuse his neglect by saying that it would be useless to sow unless God caused the seed to grow. He would not be justified in neglecting tillage because the secret energy of God alone can create a harvest. No one is hindered in the ordinary pursuits of life by the fact that unless the Lord build the house they labor in vain that build it. It is certain that no man who believes in Jesus will ever find that the Holy Spirit refuses to work in him: in fact, his believing is the proof that the Spirit is already at work in his heart. God works in providence, but men do not therefore sit still. They could not move without the divine power giving them life and strength, and yet they proceed upon their way without question; the power being bestowed from day to day by Him in whose hand their breath is, and whose are all their ways. So is it in grace. We repent and believe, though we could do neither if the Lord did not enable us. We forsake sin and trust in Jesus, and then we perceive that the Lord has wrought in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure. It is idle to pretend that there is any real difficulty in the matter.

Some truths which it is hard to explain in words are simple enough in actual experience. There is no discrepancy between the truth that the sinner believes, and that his faith is wrought in him by the Holy Spirit. Only folly can lead men to puzzle themselves about plain matters while their souls are in danger. No man would refuse to enter a lifeboat because he did not know the specific gravity of bodies; neither would a starving man decline to eat till he understood the whole process of nutrition. If you, my reader, will not believe till you can understand all mysteries, you will never be saved at all; and if you allow self-invented difficulties to keep you from accepting pardon through your Lord and Savior, you will perish in a condemnation which will be richly deserved. Do not commit spiritual suicide through a passion for discussing metaphysical subtleties.

 

[Iconoclast]

Spurgeon humbly preached the Doctrine of Grace [He called Calvinism a nickname for this Biblical Doctrine.] including regeneration or "the New Birth" apart from any action on man's part. Spurgeon also preached Faith and all that entails. He understood that Faith is an essential aspect of the Doctrine of Grace and Salvation and that Faith is a gift of God. Some on this Forum seem to be unable to understand that Regeneration by the Holy Spirit and the gift and exercise of Faith are essential aspects of Salvation. I have presented that aspect as follows:

CONVERSION by OldRegular

Conversion is the result of conscious act of a regenerate person in which he responds to the Gospel, and turns to God in faith and repentance. [The Gospel call becomes the effectual call!] In conversion the regenerate man exercizes the gift of faith bestowed upon regeneration. Regeneration must precede conversion since Scripture tells us: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [1 Corinthians 2:14] It is important to realize that conversion is a personal experience of a regenerate person with Holy God. Therefore, since no two people are alike we should not expect that they will have the same conversion experience. God saves people one at a time! Jesus Christ explains conversion in the following manner:

John 3:16, KJV
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The Apostle Paul explains conversion simply as follows:

Romans 10:9, KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It is inevitable that a person who has experienced regeneration [the new birth] he will also respond to the effectual call and be converted. Conversion is in reality an acknowledgment that one has experienced the grace of regeneration. As the believer grows in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ [2 Peter 3:18] he will come to more fully understand all the the grace bestowed with Salvation and, though they are freely bestowed, hopefully he will come to understand the infinite love demonstrated in the actual cost of Salvation.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


13.0 REGENERATION AND THE HOLY SPIRIT

In the sermon by Spurgeon "All of Grace" I find the following insightful statement. Section 13, http://www.spurgeon.org/all_of_g.htm


"YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN.” This word of our Lord Jesus has appeared to flame in the way of many, like the drawn sword of the cherub at the gate of Paradise. They have despaired, because this change is beyond their utmost effort. The new birth is from above, and therefore it is not in the creature’s power. Now, it is far from my mind to deny, or ever to conceal, a truth in order to create a false comfort. I freely admit that the new birth is supernatural, and that it cannot be wrought by the sinner’s own self. It would be a poor help to my reader if I were wicked enough to try to cheer him by persuading him to reject or forget what is unquestionably true. But is it not remarkable that the very chapter in which our Lord makes this sweeping declaration also contains the most explicit statement as to salvation by faith? Read the third chapter of John’s Gospel and do not dwell alone upon its earlier sentences. It is true that the third verse says:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

But, then, the fourteenth and fifteenth verses speak:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

The eighteenth verse repeats the same doctrine in the broadest terms:

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It is clear to every reader that these two statements must agree, since they came from the same lips, and are recorded on the same inspired page. Why should we make a difficulty where there can be none? If one statement assures us of the necessity to salvation of a something, which only God can give, and if another assures us that the Lord will save us upon our believing in Jesus, then we may safely conclude that the Lord will give to those who believe all that is declared to be necessary to salvation. The Lord does, in fact, produce the new birth in all who believe in Jesus; and their believing is the surest evidence that they are born again. We trust in Jesus for what we cannot do ourselves: if it were in our own power, what need of looking to Him? It is ours to believe, it is the Lord’s to create us anew. He will not believe for us, neither are we to do regenerating work for Him. It is enough for us to obey the gracious command; it is for the Lord to work the new birth in us. He who could go so far as to die on the cross for us, can and will give us all things that are needful for our eternal safety.

“But a saving change of heart is the work of the Holy Spirit.” This also is most true, and let it be far from us to question it, or to forget it. But the work of the Holy Spirit is secret and mysterious, and it can only be perceived by its results. There are mysteries about our natural birth into which it would be an unhallowed curiosity to pry: still more is this the case with the sacred operations of the Spirit of God. “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, or whither it goeth; so is every one that is born of theSpirit.” This much, however, we do know - the mysterious work of theHoly Spirit cannot be a reason for refusing to believe in Jesus to whom that same Spirit beareth witness.

If a man were bidden to sow a field, he could not excuse his neglect by saying that it would be useless to sow unless God caused the seed to grow. He would not be justified in neglecting tillage because the secret energy of God alone can create a harvest. No one is hindered in the ordinary pursuits of life by the fact that unless the Lord build the house they labor in vain that build it. It is certain that no man who believes in Jesus will ever find that the Holy Spirit refuses to work in him: in fact, his believing is the proof that the Spirit is already at work in his heart. God works in providence, but men do not therefore sit still. They could not move without the divine power giving them life and strength, and yet they proceed upon their way without question; the power being bestowed from day to day by Him in whose hand their breath is, and whose are all their ways. So is it in grace. We repent and believe, though we could do neither if the Lord did not enable us. We forsake sin and trust in Jesus, and then we perceive that the Lord has wrought in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure. It is idle to pretend that there is any real difficulty in the matter.

Some truths which it is hard to explain in words are simple enough in actual experience. There is no discrepancy between the truth that the sinner believes, and that his faith is wrought in him by the Holy Spirit. Only folly can lead men to puzzle themselves about plain matters while their souls are in danger. No man would refuse to enter a lifeboat because he did not know the specific gravity of bodies; neither would a starving man decline to eat till he understood the whole process of nutrition. If you, my reader, will not believe till you can understand all mysteries, you will never be saved at all; and if you allow self-invented difficulties to keep you from accepting pardon through your Lord and Savior, you will perish in a condemnation which will be richly deserved. Do not commit spiritual suicide through a passion for discussing metaphysical subtleties.

:applause::applause:Are you trying to confuse them with the facts?...lol

 

[OldRegular]

:applause::applause:Are you trying to confuse them with the facts?...lol

Sadly I am afraid you are right!:tear::tear:

 

[psalms109:31]

Thanks for that Spurgeon quote Psalms, Spurgeon knew what I am talking about, there is no "life" outside of Christ. No person is spiritually alive UNTIL they place faith in Jesus.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Calvinists teach that a man is made a new creature before he trusts in Christ. Calvinism teaches a man must be made a new creature before he is able to trust Christ. But scripture says that only when we are "in Christ" are we a new creature.

Spurgeon understood this too;



Spurgeon taught that the moment a sinner believes he receives life. Only then is he is born again by God.

No one is born again before they place faith in Jesus. Faith precedes regeneration or life. To say you have life before faith in Jesus is to claim life outside of Christ.

Winman, Spurgeon is a Calvinist you don't have to believe in regeneration before faith it is ridiculous just as Spurgeon a Calvinist say's. We can't give satan a foothold in our lives because of people's misunderstandings. No matter how hard we try to change other people we can't, the word is meant to change us. That our lives changes those around us by our attitude that the word teaches us, don't let others change you into who you are not. His Holy Spirit changes us by the rebirth through His word without His word you are dead, there is no regeneration without faith. It isn't this trumps that but we will live by every word that comes from God.

John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

John 14:24
Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

These are the people ordained to believe by the scripture and who are not.

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

Proverbs 3 :
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[Or will direct your paths]

7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord and shun evil.

Romans 4 :
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[Psalm 32:1,2]


We are regenerated by the Holy Spirit by the word of God. This word came from above not from us but from Jesus and we are messengers of it

2 Corinthians 5:
16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[Or Christ, that person is a new creation.] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin[Or be a sin offering] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

You can't force feed someone that regeneration before faith is ridiculous

 

[OldRegular]

:applause::applause:Are you trying to confuse them with the facts?...lol

Well you were correct Iconoclast!:tear::tear:

 

[Winman]

:applause::applause:Are you trying to confuse them with the facts?...lol

Spurgeon does not say a person is born again before faith, read again.

It is clear to every reader that these two statements must agree, since they came from the same lips, and are recorded on the same inspired page. Why should we make a difficulty where there can be none? If one statement assures us of the necessity to salvation of a something, which only God can give, and if another assures us that the Lord will save us upon our believing in Jesus, then we may safely conclude that the Lord will give to those who believe all that is declared to be necessary to salvation. The Lord does, in fact, produce the new birth in all who believe in Jesus; and their believing is the surest evidence that they are born again. We trust in Jesus for what we cannot do ourselves: if it were in our own power, what need of looking to Him? It is ours to believe, it is the Lord’s to create us anew. He will not believe for us, neither are we to do regenerating work for Him. It is enough for us to obey the gracious command; it is for the Lord to work the new birth in us. He who could go so far as to die on the cross for us, can and will give us all things that are needful for our eternal safety.

Spurgeon is not saying a person is born again BEFORE they believe. He said the Lord produces the new birth in all who believe in Jesus. Spurgeon says it is for us to obey the command (believe) and it is the Lord's part to work the new birth.

This is exactly what John 1:12-13 is saying. It says to those who receive Jesus and believe on his name, to these persons God gives the power to "become" a son of God. The becoming a son of God follows receiving and believeing on Jesus. But the new birth is entirely a work of God.

It is like the man who plows a field and plants seed. If he did not, no crops would grow. But it is God that works the supernatural power to cause the seeds to grow.

You fellas do not read very carefully.

 

[Winman]

Psalms said,

You can't force feed someone that regeneration before faith is ridiculous

Oh, I realize that a few here are die-hard Calvinists and will never change their view. But many others read these posts, some are not sure what to believe. It is for these persons that I post scripture that shows faith precedes regeneration.

And I can post the scripture that proves faith precedes regeneration. I have shown numerous verses in this thread alone, and there are many more I have not posted.

They do not have a single verse in all of scripture to support regeneration preceding faith. They know it, if they had such scripture they would have shown it long ago.

 

[OldRegular]

Jesus Christ, the Author and Finisher of our Faith.

There are some on this Forum who falsely use Spurgeon to question the veracity, perhaps the Salvation, of those who believe that Jesus Christ is both the Author and Finisher of our Faith.

There is no contradiction between the Doctrines of Grace and any other Scripture, PERIOD. Scripture is abundantly clear that it is the Triune God who saves and that the Incarnate Son, Jesus Christ paid the full price for that Salvation. The Doctrines of Grace never minimize the essential roll of Faith in Salvation. The truth of Justification by Faith alone is a bedrock belief of those who hold the Doctrine of Grace.

There is a contradiction with Scripture of the doctrine that man is instrumental in the New Birth. They deny the teaching presented most clearly and prominantly in the Gospel of John, Romans, and Ephesians.

In the following paragraphs I have excerpted information from the earlier posts presenting Spurgeon’s thoughts on the doctrine of Salvation. It is clear that Spurgeon believed that Regeneration, the New Birth, was solely the work of God apart from any action on man’s part. It is also clear that Spurgeon believed, as I do, that man must and will exercise the Faith that God gives him toward Jesus Christ!

Now if these people do not want to believe that the Triune God alone is the sole instrument in the New Birth that is fine. They can continue to miss the blessing that truth brings. However, they should not misuse Spurgeon in a feeble attempt to justify an erroneous doctrine of Salvation, which makes man the Author of his salvation rather than Jesus Christ!

Spurgeon humbly preached the Doctrine of Grace [He called Calvinism a nickname for this Biblical Doctrine.] including regeneration or "the New Birth" apart from any action on man's part. Spurgeon also preached Faith and all that entails. He understood that Faith is an essential aspect of the Doctrine of Grace and Salvation and that Faith is a gift of God. Some on this Forum seem to be unable to understand that Regeneration by the Holy Spirit and the gift and exercise of Faith are essential aspects of Salvation.

From: http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0130.htm

"Except a man be born again, he can not see the kingdom of God."—John 3:3.

Neither is a man regenerated, we say, in the next place, by his own exertions. A man may reform himself very much, and that is well and good; let all do that. A man may cast away many vices, forsake many lusts in which he indulged, and conquer evil habits; but no man in the world can make himself to be born in God; though he should struggle never so much, he could never accomplish what is beyond his power. And, mark you, if he could make himself to be born again still he would not enter heaven, because there is another point in the condition which he would have violated—"unless a man be born of the Spirit, he can not see the kingdom of God." So that the best exertions of the flesh do not reach this high point, the being born again of the Spirit of God.

And now we must say, that regeneration consists in this. God the Holy Spirit, in a supernatural manner—mark, by the word supernatural I mean just what it strictly means; supernatural, more than natural—works upon the hearts of men, and they by the operations of the divine Spirit become regenerate men; but without the Spirit they never can be regenerated. And unless God the Holy Spirit, who "worketh in us to will and to do," should operate upon the will and the conscience, regeneration is an absolute impossibility, and therefore so is salvation. "What!" says one, "do you mean to say that God absolutely interposes in the salvation of every man to make him regenerate?" I do indeed; in the salvation of every person there is an actual putting forth of the divine power, whereby the dead sinner is quickened, the unwilling sinner is made willing, the desperately hard sinner has his conscience made tender; and he who rejected God and despised Christ, is brought to cast himself down at the feet of Jesus. This is called fanatical doctrine, mayhap; that we can not help; it is scriptural doctrine, that is enough for us. "Except a man be born of the Spirit he can not see the kingdom of God; that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." If you like it not, quarrel with my Master, not with me; I do but simply declare his own revelation, that there must be in your heart something more than you can ever work there. There must be a divine operation; call it a miraculous operation, if you please; it is in some sense so. There must be a divine interposition, a divine working, a divine influence, or else, do what you may, without that you perish, and are undone; "for except a man be born again, be can not see the kingdom of God." The change is radical; it gives us new natures, makes us love what we hated and hate what we loved, sets us in a new road; makes our habits different, our thoughts different, makes us different in private, and different in public. So that being in Christ it is fulfilled: "If any man be in Christ he is a new creature; old things are passed away, behold all things are become new."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ON REGENERATION

Charles H. Spurgeon

From: http://www.founders.org/journal/fj48/article5_fr.html

This change takes place instantaneously. It is as miraculous a change as any miracle we read about in Scripture. It is supremely supernatural. It may be mimicked, but no imitation can be true and real. Men may pretend to be regenerated without the Spirit, but they cannot be regenerated in actuality. It is a change so marvelous that the highest attempts of man can never reach it. We may reason as long as we please, but we cannot reason ourselves into regeneration; we may meditate until our hairs are gray with study; but we cannot meditate ourselves into the new birth. The new birth is accomplished in us by the sovereign will of God alone.

Ask the regenerate man how: he cannot tell you. Ask him when: he may recognize the time, but as to how he knows no more than you do. It is a mystery.[/i]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

13.0 REGENERATION AND THE HOLY SPIRIT

Spurgeon "All of Grace", Section 13, http://www.spurgeon.org/all_of_g.htm

“But a saving change of heart is the work of the Holy Spirit.” This also is most true, and let it be far from us to question it, or to forget it. But the work of the Holy Spirit is secret and mysterious, and it can only be perceived by its results. There are mysteries about our natural birth into which it would be an unhallowed curiosity to pry: still more is this the case with the sacred operations of the Spirit of God. “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, or whither it goeth; so is every one that is born of theSpirit.” This much, however, we do know - the mysterious work of theHoly Spirit cannot be a reason for refusing to believe in Jesus to whom that same Spirit beareth witness.

So is it in grace. We repent and believe, though we could do neither if the Lord did not enable us. We forsake sin and trust in Jesus, and then we perceive that the Lord has wrought in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure. It is idle to pretend that there is any real difficulty in the matter.

Some truths which it is hard to explain in words are simple enough in actual experience. There is no discrepancy between the truth that the sinner believes, and that his faith is wrought in him by the Holy Spirit.

 

[psalms109:31]

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

The wages of my sin is death, not faith, not trust, not belief, that is the cost of my sin.

So we are saved by grace alone, because for us to pay our debt is to die nothing else we can do at all. So men who are saved by grace alone.

So we must trust in the finish work of Christ not what we can do. We are born again by His word that came down from the Holy Spirit in the words of our savior Jesus Christ that those who trust in Jesus believe on Him will be saved.

Romans 4 :
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[Psalm 32:1,2]

It us by the Holy Spirit and His word we are born again by, without the word of God we are dead.

We can't condemn anyone in Christ, it can't happen. They will be saved and they don't have to believe in regeneration before faith they can continue to believe it to be ridiculous.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Depravity That man has not saving grace of himself, nor of the energy of his free-will, inasmuch as he, in the state of apostasy and sin, can of and by himself neither think, will, nor do anything that is truly good (such as having faith eminently is); but that it is needful that he be born again of God in Christ, through his Holy Spirit, and renewed in understanding, inclination, or will, and all his powers, in order that he may rightly understand, think, will, and effect what is truly good, according to the word of Christ, John xv. b: "Without me ye can do nothing."

Grace That this grace of God is the beginning, continuance, and accomplishment of an good, even to this extent, that the regenerate man himself........elm neither think, will, nor do good, nor withstand any temptations to evil; so that all good deeds or movements that can be conceived must be ascribed to the grace of God in Christ.....

 

[Winman]

There are some on this Forum who falsely use Spurgeon to question the veracity, perhaps the Salvation, of those who believe that Jesus Christ is both the Author and Finisher of our Faith.

There is no contradiction between the Doctrines of Grace and any other Scripture, PERIOD. Scripture is abundantly clear that it is the Triune God who saves and that the Incarnate Son, Jesus Christ paid the full price for that Salvation. The Doctrines of Grace never minimize the essential roll of Faith in Salvation. The truth of Justification by Faith alone is a bedrock belief of those who hold the Doctrine of Grace.

There is a contradiction with Scripture of the doctrine that man is instrumental in the New Birth. They deny the teaching presented most clearly and prominantly in the Gospel of John, Romans, and Ephesians.

In the following paragraphs I have excerpted information from the earlier posts presenting Spurgeon’s thoughts on the doctrine of Salvation. It is clear that Spurgeon believed that Regeneration, the New Birth, was solely the work of God apart from any action on man’s part. It is also clear that Spurgeon believed, as I do, that man must and will exercise the Faith that God gives him toward Jesus Christ!

Now if these people do not want to believe that the Triune God alone is the sole instrument in the New Birth that is fine. They can continue to miss the blessing that truth brings. However, they should not misuse Spurgeon in a feeble attempt to justify an erroneous doctrine of Salvation, which makes man the Author of his salvation rather than Jesus Christ!

You don't get it Old Regular, Spurgeon is not saying that God forces a man to believe. Look again at what he said in one of the statements you quoted.

Some truths which it is hard to explain in words are simple enough in actual experience. There is no discrepancy between the truth that the sinner believes, and that his faith is wrought in him by the Holy Spirit. Only folly can lead men to puzzle themselves about plain matters while their souls are in danger. No man would refuse to enter a lifeboat because he did not know the specific gravity of bodies; neither would a starving man decline to eat till he understood the whole process of nutrition. If you, my reader, will not believe till you can understand all mysteries, you will never be saved at all; and if you allow self-invented difficulties to keep you from accepting pardon through your Lord and Savior, you will perish in a condemnation which will be richly deserved. Do not commit spiritual suicide through a passion for discussing metaphysical subtleties.

Spurgeon here compares salvation to a lifeboat offered to a drowning man, or food offered to a starving man.

He does not say God grabs the man and forcibly pulls him into the lifeboat, and he does not say God forcibly puts food in your mouth and forces you to swallow. No, he says if a person allows difficulties in understanding regeneration to prevent him from believing, he will never be saved. A man must believe of his own free will. He must enter the lifeboat of his own will, and he must eat of his own will.

Spurgeon does say God "interposes" in salvation, that is, God exerts an influence on a man's will. I agree with this 100%, and no man will ever be saved unless God interposes and influences a man to believe.

God can row up to you in the lifeboat and call you to enter, but a man must enter the lifeboat of his own free will. God can offer you a portion of food when you are starving, but a man must eat of his own free will. So God certainly exerts a strong influence on a man to believe, but a man must make his own decision and believe of his own free will.

When it comes to being actually regenerated, Spurgeon is simply saying this is the work of God upon a man. I agree with this 100%. No man can make himself regenerated, no man can supernaturally make himself born again. Nevertheless, God does not perform this work until a man receives and believes on Jesus Christ. Man simply trusts God to do what he cannot do, and then God performs the work.

An analogy might be a brain surgeon. You are diagnosed with a brain tumor and told you will die within weeks unless surgery is performed. A man certainly cannot operate on his own brain. But a man must submit and trust himself to a doctor to be healed. You must come to the hospital on the day scheduled and allow yourself to be put to sleep by the surgeon. You are completely in his power now. Your life is completely in his hands now.

The doctor then operates and removes the deadly tumor. You are healed and in a few weeks completely recover.

Now, who did the work that saved you? The doctor did of course, and no man would credit himself to have saved himself in such a situation. We merely trust God to do the work to regenerate us and make us a new creature, just as we must trust ourselves to a doctor to remove the tumor that would have killed us.

But like the brain surgeon, no man can be regenerated until he trusts God to perform this work. You could not be healed by the brain surgeon unless you trust him to operate and heal you.

But again, Spurgeon is not saying God forcibly regenerates you. He does not say God forcibly pulls you into the lifeboat, or forcibly puts food in your mouth and forces you to swallow against your will.

So, read more carefully.

 

[OldRegular]

Pathetic Winman. You either cannot read or you are too stubborn to admit that you have deliberately misused Spurgeon to defend your false belief system.

Believe what you want but don't pretend that Spurgeon or for that matter Scripture supports what you believe.

The quotes I presented above from Spurgeon and the material I wrote both show that the exercise of Faith, though a gift from God, plays an significant role in Salvation.

Spurgeon clearly teaches, as does Scripture, that regeneration or the New Birth are solely the work of the Holy Spirit and precede any act on man's part. For goodness sake read it Winman:

And now we must say, that regeneration consists in this. God the Holy Spirit, in a supernatural manner—mark, by the word supernatural I mean just what it strictly means; supernatural, more than natural—works upon the hearts of men, and they by the operations of the divine Spirit become regenerate men; but without the Spirit they never can be regenerated. And unless God the Holy Spirit, who "worketh in us to will and to do," should operate upon the will and the conscience, regeneration is an absolute impossibility, and therefore so is salvation. "What!" says one, "do you mean to say that God absolutely interposes in the salvation of every man to make him regenerate?" I do indeed; in the salvation of every person there is an actual putting forth of the divine power, whereby the dead sinner is quickened, the unwilling sinner is made willing, the desperately hard sinner has his conscience made tender; and he who rejected God and despised Christ, is brought to cast himself down at the feet of Jesus. This is called fanatical doctrine, mayhap; that we can not help; it is scriptural doctrine, that is enough for us. "Except a man be born of the Spirit he can not see the kingdom of God; that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." If you like it not, quarrel with my Master, not with me; I do but simply declare his own revelation, that there must be in your heart something more than you can ever work there. There must be a divine operation; call it a miraculous operation, if you please; it is in some sense so. There must be a divine interposition, a divine working, a divine influence, or else, do what you may, without that you perish, and are undone; "for except a man be born again, be can not see the kingdom of God." The change is radical; it gives us new natures, makes us love what we hated and hate what we loved, sets us in a new road; makes our habits different, our thoughts different, makes us different in private, and different in public. So that being in Christ it is fulfilled: "If any man be in Christ he is a new creature; old things are passed away, behold all things are become new."

And again, and again!

So is it in grace. We repent and believe, though we could do neither if the Lord did not enable us. We forsake sin and trust in Jesus, and then we perceive that the Lord has wrought in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure. It is idle to pretend that there is any real difficulty in the matter.

Some truths which it is hard to explain in words are simple enough in actual experience. There is no discrepancy between the truth that the sinner believes, and that his faith is wrought in him by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Winman]

Pathetic Winman. You either cannot read or you are too stubborn to admit that you have deliberately misused Spurgeon to defend your false belief system.

Believe what you want but don't pretend that Spurgeon or for that matter Scripture supports what you believe.

The quotes I presented above from Spurgeon and the material I wrote both show that the exercise of Faith, though a gift from God, plays an significant role in Salvation.

Spurgeon clearly teaches, as does Scripture, that regeneration or the New Birth are solely the work of the Holy Spirit and precede any act on man's part. For goodness sake read it Winman:

And now we must say, that regeneration consists in this. God the Holy Spirit, in a supernatural manner—mark, by the word supernatural I mean just what it strictly means; supernatural, more than natural—works upon the hearts of men, and they by the operations of the divine Spirit become regenerate men; but without the Spirit they never can be regenerated. And unless God the Holy Spirit, who "worketh in us to will and to do," should operate upon the will and the conscience, regeneration is an absolute impossibility, and therefore so is salvation. "What!" says one, "do you mean to say that God absolutely interposes in the salvation of every man to make him regenerate?" I do indeed; in the salvation of every person there is an actual putting forth of the divine power, whereby the dead sinner is quickened, the unwilling sinner is made willing, the desperately hard sinner has his conscience made tender; and he who rejected God and despised Christ, is brought to cast himself down at the feet of Jesus. This is called fanatical doctrine, mayhap; that we can not help; it is scriptural doctrine, that is enough for us. "Except a man be born of the Spirit he can not see the kingdom of God; that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." If you like it not, quarrel with my Master, not with me; I do but simply declare his own revelation, that there must be in your heart something more than you can ever work there. There must be a divine operation; call it a miraculous operation, if you please; it is in some sense so. There must be a divine interposition, a divine working, a divine influence, or else, do what you may, without that you perish, and are undone; "for except a man be born again, be can not see the kingdom of God." The change is radical; it gives us new natures, makes us love what we hated and hate what we loved, sets us in a new road; makes our habits different, our thoughts different, makes us different in private, and different in public. So that being in Christ it is fulfilled: "If any man be in Christ he is a new creature; old things are passed away, behold all things are become new."

And again, and again!

So is it in grace. We repent and believe, though we could do neither if the Lord did not enable us. We forsake sin and trust in Jesus, and then we perceive that the Lord has wrought in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure. It is idle to pretend that there is any real difficulty in the matter.

Some truths which it is hard to explain in words are simple enough in actual experience. There is no discrepancy between the truth that the sinner believes, and that his faith is wrought in him by the Holy Spirit.

Old Regular,

First, there is no need to write in huge font. This comes across as shouting, which does not make what you say true. It also makes it appear you have lost your cool.

Second, you need to look up the word "interposes". Here is the definition from a dictionary.

Definition of INTERPOSE

transitive verb
1
a : to place in an intervening position
b : to put (oneself) between : intrude
2
: to put forth by way of interference or intervention
3
: to introduce or throw in between the parts of a conversation or argument
intransitive verb
1
: to be or come between
2
: to step in between parties at variance : intervene
3
: interrupt
— in·ter·pos·er noun

Interpose simply means to intervene. It does not mean God forces a person to believe. It does mean that God steps in and influences a man to believe. This is done by the foolishness of preaching. When a man hears preaching, he is convicted of his sin and shown his need for Christ. Without this conviction and knowledge, no man would come to Christ.

Spurgeon also said we are "enabled" to believe, not forced. You do not understand the difference. When you hear the word of God you are enabled to believe in Jesus, no man can believe what he does not know.

It would be like this, suppose I sent my grandson a pair of roller skates for his birthday. I have enabled him to skate. But I have not forced him to skate, he must put the skates on of his own free will and use them to skate. Nevertheless, I have enabled him to skate if he chooses to do so.

You do not understand the difference between interposed and forced, and you do not understand the difference between being enabled and being forced.

 

[psalms109:31]

Lamentations 3 :
31 For no one is cast off
by the Lord forever.
32 Though he brings grief, he will show compassion,
so great is his unfailing love.
33 For he does not willingly bring affliction
or grief to anyone.

Jeremiah 31 :
3 The Lord appeared to us in the past,[Or Lord has appeared to us from afar] saying:

“I have loved you with an everlasting love;
I have drawn you with unfailing kindness.

Jeremiah 31:
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

 

[OldRegular]

You don't get it Old Regular, Spurgeon is not saying that God forces a man to believe. Look again at what he said in one of the statements you quoted.

Winman,
I have never said that God forces a person to believe; to say otherwise is a complete falsehood. I have never read anything by Spurgeon where he says God forces a person to believe. I have said as does Spurgeon and Scripture that God makes Spiritually alive one who is dead in trespass and sin. Do you understand what I am saying? That is called the New Birth or Regeneration. That is what we are told in Ephesians 2:4 & 5

4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, [by grace ye are saved;]

and in John 3:3-8

6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Are you still with me Winman?

Spurgeon Speaks of the New Birth as follows:

And now we must say, that regeneration consists in this. God the Holy Spirit, in a supernatural manner—mark, by the word supernatural I mean just what it strictly means; supernatural, more than natural—works upon the hearts of men, and they by the operations of the divine Spirit become regenerate men; but without the Spirit they never can be regenerated. And unless God the Holy Spirit, who "worketh in us to will and to do," should operate upon the will and the conscience, regeneration is an absolute impossibility, and therefore so is salvation.

Notice that Spurgeon does not mention that faith must precede regeneration. I wrote big Winman because you seem to have a problem reading what I had posted.

No, he says if a person allows difficulties in understanding regeneration to prevent him from believing, he will never be saved. A man must believe of his own free will. He must enter the lifeboat of his own will, and he must eat of his own will.

Spurgeon does say God "interposes" in salvation, that is, God exerts an influence on a man's will. I agree with this 100%, and no man will ever be saved unless God interposes and influences a man to believe.

You are wrong again Winman. Spurgeon further states:

"What!" says one, "do you mean to say that God absolutely interposes in the salvation of every man to make him regenerate?" I do indeed; in the salvation of every person there is an actual putting forth of the divine power, whereby the dead sinner is quickened, the unwilling sinner is made willing, the desperately hard sinner has his conscience made tender; and he who rejected God and despised Christ, is brought to cast himself down at the feet of Jesus.

Notice that Spurgeon states there is a putting forth of divine power, the dead sinner is quickened. that is "born again", and the unwilling sinner is made willing. Spurgeon said absolutely nothing about this dead sinner believing, nothing about this unwilling sinner believing, nothing about belief at all. That comes after the gift of faith. Spurgeon then states regarding the gift of faith:

There is no discrepancy between the truth that the sinner believes, and that his faith is wrought in him by the Holy Spirit.

So please Winman, read more carefully. Please note that Spurgeon states that Faith is the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[psalms109:31]

What quickens us does not come from within in us. We are all dead and all need life and it comes from the words of Jesus from Him, His word is Spirit and life, without His word we have no life within us, no quickening or a desire to come to Christ without His word that came from above through His word there will be no quickening of the dead and no regeneration. Man has no desire at all until the words of Jesus comes to them.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Acts 19 :2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[Or other languages] and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Regeneration, life before the word of life is ridiculous

 

[OldRegular]

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

We are born again of an imperishable seed, through the living and enduring word of God. Who is the imperishable seed, who is the Living Word? Jesus Christ!!!

John 1:1, 2
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.