John 6:37,65

[RipponRedeaux]

“From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?” John 6:66–67 (KJV 1900)

Yes, I suppose Mitchell thinks that Judas Iscariot was "the many."

 

[37818]

I mulled over which forum I should place this thread and landed here.

First I will list a number of ways various English translations render 6:37.

CSB
Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out.

CEB
Everyone whom the Father gives to me will come to me, and I won't send away anyone who comes to me.

EHV
Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out.

ESV
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

LEB
Everyone whom the Father gives to me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never throw out.

Mounce
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes I will never turn away.

NET
Everyone whom whom the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never send away.

NIV
All those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.

NLT
However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.

WEB
All those whom the Father gives me will come to me. He who comes to me I will in no way throw out.

Berkeley
Every one whom the Father has given Me will come to Me, and I will certainly not cast out anyone who comes to Me.

Goodspeed
All that my Father gives to me will come to me, and I will never refuse anyone who comes to me.

KNT
All that the father gives me will come to me; and I won't reject anyone who comes to me.

Weymouth
Every one whom the Father gives me will come to Me, and him who comes to me I will never drive away.

Norlie
All whom the Father has given Me shall come to Me, and he who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

20th Century N.T.
All those whom the Father gives me will come to me, and no one who comes to me will I ever turn away.
___________________________________________________________________________________
There 16 different Bible versions with various wordings expressing the very same thing.

The Father gives certain people to His Son, Jesus Christ. Every single person He gives to Christ will come to Christ, there is no possibility of failure. And every soul coming to Jesus will never be cast aside.

Comforting words from the mouth of Jesus.

What I see as the key word(s) in John 6:37 is the emphatic Greek no with the meaing never or not in any way. The difficulty, if any, are those who suppose they have come to Christ but had not really. Such as Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[MB]

I mulled over which forum I should place this thread and landed here.

First I will list a number of ways various English translations render 6:37.

CSB
Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out.

CEB
Everyone whom the Father gives to me will come to me, and I won't send away anyone who comes to me.

EHV
Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out.

ESV
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

LEB
Everyone whom the Father gives to me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never throw out.

Mounce
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes I will never turn away.

NET
Everyone whom whom the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never send away.

NIV
All those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.

NLT
However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.

WEB
All those whom the Father gives me will come to me. He who comes to me I will in no way throw out.

Berkeley
Every one whom the Father has given Me will come to Me, and I will certainly not cast out anyone who comes to Me.

Goodspeed
All that my Father gives to me will come to me, and I will never refuse anyone who comes to me.

KNT
All that the father gives me will come to me; and I won't reject anyone who comes to me.

Weymouth
Every one whom the Father gives me will come to Me, and him who comes to me I will never drive away.

Norlie
All whom the Father has given Me shall come to Me, and he who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

20th Century N.T.
All those whom the Father gives me will come to me, and no one who comes to me will I ever turn away.
___________________________________________________________________________________
There 16 different Bible versions with various wordings expressing the very same thing.

The Father gives certain people to His Son, Jesus Christ. Every single person He gives to Christ will come to Christ, there is no possibility of failure. And every soul coming to Jesus will never be cast aside.

Comforting words from the mouth of Jesus.

What do you do with John 12:32 ?
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
MB

 

[RipponRedeaux]

What do you do with John 12:32 ?
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
MB

The word 'men' is not in the original. He will draw all of His own to Himself. The Lord has His own, the elect, scattered all over the world from every tribe, language, people and nation. We already knows that the Father draws the ones of His choosing. The Father gives them to Jesus.
And we know that 12:32 does not apply to each and every person past, present and future. Because the ones drawn will be raised up on the last day. That's a guarantee. Jesus does not raise up those on the Last Day those who are not His own.

 

[37818]

What do you do with John 12:32 ?
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
MB

John 12:32 is Jesus' response to the reason they wanted to kill him, John 11: 48, ". . . If we let him thus alone, all [men] will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. . . ."
John 12:32-33, ". . . And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die. . . ."

 

[Iconoclast]

The Father gave the disciples to Jesus. He even mentions that in His prayer in John 17. It’s a misapplication of this passage to apply it to every saved person.

No RM,
A casual glance at the passage starting at vs.22 shows it was not believing disciples who were questioning Him, but rather all in the crowd.
The doctrines of grace stand firm against all who try and diminish the clarity and power of the teaching.
Do people have such a hatred of the truth that no matter how clearly Rippon has laid it out, they need to avert people from it?

 

[Iconoclast]

Who came to him and for what reason did they come?

The elect Covenant Children are those effectually drawn to Jesus.

All The Father gives to Him
All that were taught of the Father
They and they alone come to Him.

 

[37818]

No RM,
A casual glance at the passage starting at vs.22 shows it was not believing disciples who were questioning Him, but rather all in the crowd.
The doctrines of grace stand firm against all who try and diminish the clarity and power of the teaching.
Do people have such a hatred of the truth that no matter how clearly Rippon has laid it out, they need to avert people from it?

Some come who think they are coming to Him, Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[1689Dave]

What I see as the key word(s) in John 6:37 is the emphatic Greek no with the meaing never or not in any way. The difficulty, if any, are those who suppose they have come to Christ but had not really. Such as Matthew 7:21-23.

In Hebrews 6 the writer tells us that in order to save any who fall away Christ would need to be crucified all over again. How so? If he died for them in the first place? If He did, it would certainly make their repentance possible. This shows that Jesus died for a specific number and not one more than that will be saved.

“But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.” Matthew 15:13 (KJV 1900)

 

[MB]

The word 'men' is not in the original. He will draw all of His own to Himself. The Lord has His own, the elect, scattered all over the world from every tribe, language, people and nation. We already knows that the Father draws the ones of His choosing. The Father gives them to Jesus.
And we know that 12:32 does not apply to each and every person past, present and future. Because the ones drawn will be raised up on the last day. That's a guarantee. Jesus does not raise up those on the Last Day those who are not His own.

You mean the lost sinners will not have to face the great white throne Judgement?. They are the last to be raised on the last day.
Quite frankly then you disagree with scripture.The word men is in italics which means it wasn't in original text. How ever the word all is all inclusive and you shouldn't add or subtract this for support of your doctrine.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

You mean the lost sinners will not have to face the great white throne Judgement?. They are the last to be raised on the last day.
Quite frankly then you disagree with scripture.The word men is in italics which means it wasn't in original text. How ever the word all is all inclusive and you shouldn't add or subtract this for support of your doctrine.
MB

Are you intentionally misrepresenting him? That is not what he said at all.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

the word all is all inclusive and you shouldn't add or subtract this for support of your doctrine.

Context, context, context. Look at a few verses earlier in John 12.

Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request, "Sir," they said, "we would like to see Jesus." (verses 20,21)

Greeks are Gentiles which is to say non-Jews. Christ did not die only for His own among the Jews, but from among the Gentiles as well.

Revelation 5:9 :
And they sang a new song, saying:
You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals
because you were slain,
and with your blood
you purchased for God
persons from every tribe
and language
and people
and nation.

 

[Iconoclast]

Some come who think they are coming to Him, Matthew 7:21-23.

There is always the tragic case of false carnal professors. They believe in vain, because it was an effort of their own sinful flesh.,
Some of the disciples in Jn 6 were false disciples as indicated by jn6:66
from that time forth many walked no more with Him.

The key is...ALL THE FATHER GIVES-SHALL COME,
NO MORE, NO LESS

 

[37818]

Some of the disciples in Jn 6 were false disciples as indicated by jn6:66

How does " . . . disciples went back, . . ." answer to Matthew 7:21-23?

 

[AustinC]

I mulled over which forum I should place this thread and landed here.

First I will list a number of ways various English translations render 6:37.

CSB
Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out.

CEB
Everyone whom the Father gives to me will come to me, and I won't send away anyone who comes to me.

EHV
Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out.

ESV
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

LEB
Everyone whom the Father gives to me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never throw out.

Mounce
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes I will never turn away.

NET
Everyone whom whom the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never send away.

NIV
All those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.

NLT
However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.

WEB
All those whom the Father gives me will come to me. He who comes to me I will in no way throw out.

Berkeley
Every one whom the Father has given Me will come to Me, and I will certainly not cast out anyone who comes to Me.

Goodspeed
All that my Father gives to me will come to me, and I will never refuse anyone who comes to me.

KNT
All that the father gives me will come to me; and I won't reject anyone who comes to me.

Weymouth
Every one whom the Father gives me will come to Me, and him who comes to me I will never drive away.

Norlie
All whom the Father has given Me shall come to Me, and he who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

20th Century N.T.
All those whom the Father gives me will come to me, and no one who comes to me will I ever turn away.
___________________________________________________________________________________
There 16 different Bible versions with various wordings expressing the very same thing.

The Father gives certain people to His Son, Jesus Christ. Every single person He gives to Christ will come to Christ, there is no possibility of failure. And every soul coming to Jesus will never be cast aside.

Comforting words from the mouth of Jesus.

This coincides with the thread regarding God's purpose for angels.

Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

In John 6 we see the agreement that the Father gives particular people to inherit salvation and the Father designates angels to serve those who inherit this salvation.

 

[Iconoclast]

Reformed1689,

Are you intentionally misrepresenting him? That is not what he said at all.

Such shameful misrepresentation, unfortunately, demonstrates the careless disregard for proper bible study.

This is viewed as a strict...I am set to oppose anything posted, no matter what, activity.

The lack of any spiritual understanding shows the truth of the T.

To expect any honest or sincere interaction does not look like it is going to happen.

 

[Iconoclast]

How does " . . . disciples went back, . . ." answer to Matthew 7:21-23?

They are those described in Mt 7.
What is so confusing about this?
From William Hendriksen'Commentary on John.

 

[Reformed1689]

Context, context, context. Look at a few verses earlier in John 12.

Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request, "Sir," they said, "we would like to see Jesus." (verses 20,21)

Greeks are Gentiles which is to say non-Jews. Christ did not die only for His own among the Jews, but from among the Gentiles as well.

Revelation 5:9 :
And they sang a new song, saying:
You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals
because you were slain,
and with your blood
you purchased for God
persons from every tribe
and language
and people
and nation.

There are some here who I am convinced don't know what context actually means.

 

[MB]

Context, context, context. Look at a few verses earlier in John 12.

Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request, "Sir," they said, "we would like to see Jesus." (verses 20,21)

Greeks are Gentiles which is to say non-Jews. Christ did not die only for His own among the Jews, but from among the Gentiles as well.

Revelation 5:9 :
And they sang a new song, saying:
You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals
because you were slain,
and with your blood
you purchased for God
persons from every tribe
and language
and people
and nation.

I understand the whole Chapter. How does those verses nullify the "all" In Jn 12:32 I've already heard all the arguments but you haven't disproved the" all means all" position which this verse backs up
MB.

 

[Reformed1689]

I understand the whole Chapter. How does those verses nullify the "all" In Jn 12:32 I've already heard all the arguments but you haven't disproved the" all means all" position which this verse backs up
MB.

It is obvious you do not. All does mean all with regard to what all is referring to. It is not referring to all individuals and you cannot show from CONTEXT (something you ignore) that it does.