Like you for instance.You always state it and again in this position you don't know squat about what you are talking about
MB
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John 6:37,65
- Thread starter RipponRedeaux
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MB
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Your confession of being a joke is accepted.
MB
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
Are you a Universalist MB? Do you think because of the sacrifice of Christ 'all' will be saved? Reading the Scripture should clue you in that Christ died for the Church that He purchased with his own blood. It's not the Church and everybody else. He is the Savior of the Church --His body, the elect. Christ loved the Church and gave Himself up for her alone. With His blood He purchased people from among all tribes, languages, peoples and nations.
You see, all humanity is divided into two groups --the sheep and the goats. Take a gander at Matthew 25:31-46. Christ did not die for the sheep and the goats. He died for the sheep alone.
Christ did not pray for the world, but for His own. His own were not just the Eleven, but for those who will believe in Him through their message. That includes all believers down through the ages until the end of time.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Why would you let a little thing like context stand in the way of a miss application of a text.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
People don't have top argue with your errant reading context does it all by itself.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Have to admit it, Calvinists have a great way of miss reading a text.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Except I'm not in error. Jesus was clear.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Then please, exegete the passage to show us how we are wrong on this.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Since you have already made up your mind tell me of what use it would be to take the time to work through the scriptures with you. I have read enough of your comments to see that you do not want the truth you just want someone to support your Calvinist views.
You have said that some on here do not understand context and you should know as that applies to you.
Must admit it is fun to read through these posts. The hoop jumping done by most of the Calvinists on here is quite entertaining.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
So in other words you can't.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Not can't just do not see the reason I should waste my time with those that have closed minds. If you cannot see the truth that is right in front of you in the text then my pointing it out to you again will not help you.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
That is a cop out answer. I could say the same about you. If I am truly in error, show me.
We don’t have closed mind. That’s why we believe the way we do. We see that our beliefs early in our walk with Him didn’t align with what the Bible actually teaches.
Your side of the debate are the ones with closed minds.
Your side of the debate are the ones with closed minds.
He can’t, so he will come up with any excuse to keep from doing it.
This is what Jn 6:44 says.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
All these men to whom Jesus was speaking in that synagogue in Capernaum that day had come to Jesus at great effort from the other side of the sea.
Check this out. It sets the stage for the statements in Capernaum the next day.
Jn 6:1 ¶ After these things Jesus went over the sea of Galilee, which is [the sea] of Tiberias.
2 And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased.
3 And Jesus went up into a mountain, and there he sat with his disciples.
4 And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh.
5 When Jesus then lifted up [his] eyes, and saw a great company come unto him, he saith unto Philip, Whence shall we buy bread, that these may eat?
6 And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do.
7 Philip answered him, Two hundred pennyworth of bread is not sufficient for them, that every one of them may take a little.
8 One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, saith unto him,
9 There is a lad here, which hath five barley loaves, and two small fishes: but what are they among so many?
10 And Jesus said, Make the men sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about five thousand.
11 And Jesus took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise of the fishes as much as they would.
12 When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.
13 Therefore they gathered [them] together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten.
Here are these guys who were in the synagogue.
14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.
16 And when even was [now] come, his disciples went down unto the sea,
17 And entered into a ship, and went over the sea toward Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Jesus was not come to them.
22 The day following, when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was none other boat there, save that one whereinto his disciples were entered, and that Jesus went not with his disciples into the boat, but [that] his disciples were gone away alone;
23 (Howbeit there came other boats from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they did eat bread, after that the Lord had given thanks
24 When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus.
they found him in the synagogue.
This began a dialog between Jesus and these men where our proof verses are found and explains verse 44 and verse 45 and it is crucial to get it.
25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?
26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27 Labour not for the meat (bread) which perisheth, but for that meat (bread) which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him (the son of man) hath God the Father sealed.
Now, Jesus knew that the bread they received from him the day before would not endure with the one eating to everlasting life but that they would need to eat again if they would live. This that he did with the miracle was an object lesson concerning eating him, the true bread, sent down from heaven and typified by the manna in the wilderness, one time, and the eating enduring unto everlasting life that would go beyond the endurance of the physical body, which would die and be buried some day.
Here is their next question.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
The answer is clear and succinct.
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Here is the next question and answer.
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
You can see from their questions that they have not yet believed,the two things he has said about himself so far,
That he is the true bread sent from heaven that they must eat and that God who sent him was his Father.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Jesus said in this answer that the manna from God was just a picture of himself and as the manna from God gave life to the children of Israel when they ate it and it was inside them, even so the true manna, which was himself, would give life to the world when they ate him and he was inside them, but unlike the physical bread, the spiritual would be eaten once only and it would endure to everlasting life.
Here is the next thing they said.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
These men are still thinking in the physical. Here is what Jesus said and this is where the wheel runs off for these men. It is the same place that the wheel runs off for Calvinists. Jesus evaluates the heart.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Men who come to Jesus Christ are not coming because the Father has given them to Jesus in the misty past, but because they recognize him as the bread of life that the Father has sent that must be eaten in order to have everlasting life. How should have these men recognized him. Because of the miracle of the loaves that they had seen with their own eyes and because of the written word they had been reading their whole lives. Although these men came to Jesus at great effort and labor, they left without eating the bread. They did not labor for the bread
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
27 Labour not for the meat (bread) which perisheth, but for that meat (bread) which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him (the son of man) hath God the Father sealed.
Here is the reaction of these men after the wheel ran off and they understood fully what Jesus was saying.
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
The Jews did not want the bread which came down from heaven and they would not believe that God was his Father in spite of the miracles he showed them and the words he said to them.
Continuing from above.
The word "therefore" means, because of this.
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
This is the key verse. The drawing of the Father is through his word and the physical things he establishes is to illustrate spiritual truths that only he can reveal to the submissive and believing mind. If a man believes the Father he will understand the context of the bread and will come to Jesus for everlasting life.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Jesus said it here after all had left him.
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not (that he was the bread of life), and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
I will stop there but the bottom line teaching of this whole chapter is one thing. That Jesus must be inside a man in order for him to have everlasting life, because Jesus is everlasting life.
Do not be like these Jews and miss the truth of the Bread of Life in favor of something that will not help you.You must eat the bread. You must believe in Jesus Christ from the heart and because God has written his words telling you about him.
The word "therefore" means, because of this.
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
This is the key verse. The drawing of the Father is through his word and the physical things he establishes is to illustrate spiritual truths that only he can reveal to the submissive and believing mind. If a man believes the Father he will understand the context of the bread and will come to Jesus for everlasting life.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Jesus said it here after all had left him.
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not (that he was the bread of life), and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
I will stop there but the bottom line teaching of this whole chapter is one thing. That Jesus must be inside a man in order for him to have everlasting life, because Jesus is everlasting life.
Do not be like these Jews and miss the truth of the Bread of Life in favor of something that will not help you.You must eat the bread. You must believe in Jesus Christ from the heart and because God has written his words telling you about him.
37818
Well-Known Member
The commentary makes no connection to Matthew 7:21-23 that I could see.
Christ died for the lost. He did not just die for the elect. He died for all man kind. The reason men go to hell is there own fault for not believing in Christ Jesus. I do not believe in determinism.I do not believe in Arminianism Which in my opinion is just another form of Calvinism. Yes God uses men who are and are not saved. This does not prove determinism is how God saves.. Are you a J.W.?. Do you like being accused of being something you are not? If you start playing that game the conversation is over because you have no reason to assume. I am a dispensationalist and I believe God gives men a choice. they can either believe in Christ and be saved or reject Him and go to hell. It is what scripture teaches. Millions go to hell.
MB
Dave G
Well-Known Member
"And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. ." ( John 6:39-40 ).
Every one that sees the Son and believes on Him....
Does that not make it every saved person?
" But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." ( John 6:64-65 ).
No one comes to Christ except it were given to that person by the Father.
Stated very straight-forwardly, at least to me.
Therefore, no one is saved that is not given to Christ by His Father, drawn by the Father, and comes to Christ in belief...
A work of God that no man can interfere with, since it is all performed by the Lord, according to John 6.
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