John 6:37,65

[JD731]

John 6:44 was spoken by Jesus to a group of men who never came to Jesus as the bread of life sent from the Father. They never ate his flesh and drank his blood and they did not have everlasting life in them because of their unbelief. The Father said in his word concerning the manna, that he will provide it from heaven so you may live by eating it, but it is the manna that gives life when it is in you.

That is how simple this is. Jesus said in the text that unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you. How simple is this. These unbelievers came to the son, but they did not eat him.

Jn 6:52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

1 Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 ¶ He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

 

[Dave G]

that verse doesn’t say that the one drawn is guaranteed to come. It only says that the one that comes is guaranteed to be raised up on the last day

John 6:37, which precedes John 6:44, does indeed say both, does it not?

" All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. <----------
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. <--------
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."( John 6:37-40 ).

There it is, my friend, step by step...

1) The Lord Jesus says that all that are given to Him by the Father shall come to Him, and they shall not be cast out.
2) Jesus came down from Heaven to do the Father's will, not His own.
3) The Father's will was that all which He has given to the Son, none of them would be lost...and He will raise all of them up at the last day.
4) The Father's will was also that everyone that "sees" ( notice further up in the passage that the Jews saw, but not in the spiritual sense, because they were standing right in front of Him and still did not believe ) the Son and believes on Him, may have everlasting life...and be raised up at the last day.

Then there's John 6:44:
" No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Based on the context of the entire passage, I see that John 6:44 continues the truth of what is seen in John 6:37-40...all that are given to the Son will come to Him and those that come will be raised up.
But, no man can come unless the Father draws them...and all that are drawn ( just as all who are given to Jesus ), will be raised up at the last day.

I'm not sure why that is hard to see, but to me it became fairly easy after about my 4th or 5th time through it.
Please look at it again, and more closely.

The entire passage tells me that all that the Father has given to the Son shall come to Him, and all that are drawn will come...and both all who are given by the Father and all who are drawn by the Father will be raised up at the last day.
They are the ones who have "seen" the Son and believed on Him and who have everlasting life.

Side note and question:

Why did the Jews who were standing in front of the Lord Jesus looking straight at Him, not "see" ( know ) who He really was and is, when Peter and some of the others did?
For the answer, I see that it can be found in Matthew 11:25-27, Matthew 13:9-17 and Matthew 16:13-17, as well as many other places.

Good evening to you.

 

[MB]

That is a cop out answer. I could say the same about you. If I am truly in error, show me.

It wouldn't do any good I have shown you and you reject it.
MB

 

[MB]

All you have done is to point out your faulty thinking. He was not only addressing his core disciples but the wider audience of 'disciples' who followed him (see verse 66). And everything Jesus said in chapter six applies to everyone today.

If anyone here has faulty thinking it's you rippon. You like most calvinist can't understand the simplest text.
MB

 

[SovereignGrace]

Continuing from above.

The word "therefore" means, because of this.

43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

This is the key verse. The drawing of the Father is through his word and the physical things he establishes is to illustrate spiritual truths that only he can reveal to the submissive and believing mind. If a man believes the Father he will understand the context of the bread and will come to Jesus for everlasting life.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Jesus said it here after all had left him.
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not (that he was the bread of life), and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

I will stop there but the bottom line teaching of this whole chapter is one thing. That Jesus must be inside a man in order for him to have everlasting life, because Jesus is everlasting life.

Do not be like these Jews and miss the truth of the Bread of Life in favor of something that will not help you.You must eat the bread. You must believe in Jesus Christ from the heart and because God has written his words telling you about him.

All of this typing to make what Jesus said not what Jesus said.

 

[JD731]

It is not just that men come to Jesus. The men who saw him provide bread for 5000 men from a single lunch came to him but they did not come to him as the bread. They came to him as the bread provider. (33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread) No one can come to the son as the bread and eat him unless the Father draws them through his miracles and the OT figures and types of him being made clear to their understanding. The Father provided the manna from heaven in days of old and it lighted on the earth and it would sustain life to whoever ate it, but it had to be gathered by the Israelites and they had to eat it in order to live.

Eating is equal to believing. The bread of life is something God gives to the world free of charge and tells where it is but men must go to it and eat it.

 

[JD731]

Who belongs to Jesus? Those whom Jesus indwells.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

If Christ is not in your body, you are none of his. This agrees in total with Jn 6 and the bread of life.

 

[Iconoclast]

The commentary makes no connection to Matthew 7:21-23 that I could see.

Correct. You cannot see it.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Who belongs to Jesus? Those whom Jesus indwells.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

If Christ is not in your body, you are none of his. This agrees in total with Jn 6 and the bread of life.

They belonged to Jesus from before He said, “Let there be light.” “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.” “Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.”[John 17:1b-2, 24]

 

[Silverhair]

That is a cop out answer. I could say the same about you. If I am truly in error, show me.

I have made comment on various texts but all you seem to say is, no that's not what it says. So why should I waste my time with those that are blind to the text.

 

[Silverhair]

He can’t, so he will come up with any excuse to keep from doing it.

And here we have the Calvinist cheerleader.

 

[Reformed1689]

I have made comment on various texts but all you seem to say is, no that's not what it says. So why should I waste my time with those that are blind to the text.

Like I said, you aren't able to so you keep on with this drivel.

 

[Reformed1689]

It wouldn't do any good I have shown you and you reject it.
MB

Another cop out. You have not shown me one time by actually exegeting the passage.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Like I said, you aren't able to so you keep on with this drivel.

Well, he called me a cheerleader. So there’s that.

 

[JD731]

They belonged to Jesus from before He said, “Let there be light.” “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.” “Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.”[John 17:1b-2, 24]

“Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son,

What hour has come? Jesus did not have a body before he became a man. He was not a man in eternity past, but he did have glory. He is asking that God glorify his body at the resurrection, which he did when he raised him from the dead.

that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.

The eternal life he will give them is his Spirit that he pours out of his body on the cross a short time later and which they will receive after he rises from the dead. Believers in Jesus receive his Spirit, the Spirit of Christ and of God when they believe in this age after the resurrection of Jesus Christ, unlike the apostles, who he was praying for in context in Jn 17, who did not have the Spirit until Jesus rose from the dead. These men, who would be the foundation of the church of Jesus Christ would receive the Spirit differently than anyone else. They, like all of us who are saved and have the Spirit of God dwelling in our bodies, will be glorified when we receive the glorified body like unto our Lord's glorious body and at that time we will see him in his glory and will be with him in his presence.

Jn 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them [his] hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.

You have religion but you do not have the truth. I have not caught you believing anything in the context of scriptures so far. You have everything wrong. If you would humble yourself and be taught the truth, you could get some help. This is true of all the Calvinists.

 

[37818]

Correct. You cannot see it.

One of two reasons. It is not there in any way. Or it is, but needs to be explained, which you did not explian.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The OP is referring to John 6:37,65 and someone is running to John 17:1 and John 20.

Talk about running from the text!

 

[JD731]

The OP is referring to John 6:37,65 and someone is running to John 17:1 and John 20.

Talk about running from the text!

I am not trying to win an argument, I am trying to show you some truth. I have commented on Jn 6 in the context of truth. For Calvinism to flourish the sheeple must be kept ignorant and distracted. Take for instance your handle; grace is not sovereign and there is nowhere in the scriptures that says it is. Grace is grace. Sovereign grace is a made up doctrine. I know this is not the thread to discuss it so I will challenge you to defend it on a new thread later just for the sake of proving it cannot be defended and so you may deliver yourself from it.

In Jn 6, you have demonstrated that you do not know what the main teaching is in the chapter. You do not seem to know that the main feature of this chapter is to identify Jesus Christ as the life giving bread who was sent to Israel that they might eat and live. The manna in the OT was the symbolism for this greater truth, "I am" the bread of life. This is the first of the seven "I am" statements in John that connects him with Jehovah.
2) I am the light of the world Jn 8:12
3) I am the door Jn 10:9
4) I am the good shepherd Jn 10:11
5) I am the way, the truth, and the life Jn 14:6
6) I am the true vine Jn 15:1
7) I am the resurrection and the life Jn 11:25

John's gospel is not about you like you are trying to make it, like he would choose you before the foundation of the earth when you can't even learn how to discern his word.

The bottom line about your comments is that you are trying to convince people here and yourself that God chose only a few to be saved and that you are one among that number when there is no way to prove it from scripture. Why? because it ain't so.

The good news is that there is still time to get it right by eating the Bread if you haven't already. We all had better be sure.

 

[Iconoclast]

I am not trying to win an argument, I am trying to show you some truth. I have commented on Jn 6 in the context of truth. For Calvinism to flourish the sheeple must be kept ignorant and distracted. Take for instance your handle; grace is not sovereign and there is nowhere in the scriptures that says it is. Grace is grace. Sovereign grace is a made up doctrine. I know this is not the thread to discuss it so I will challenge you to defend it on a new thread later just for the sake of proving it cannot be defended and so you may deliver yourself from it.

In Jn 6, you have demonstrated that you do not know what the main teaching is in the chapter. You do not seem to know that the main feature of this chapter is to identify Jesus Christ as the life giving bread who was sent to Israel that they might eat and live. The manna in the OT was the symbolism for this greater truth, "I am" the bread of life. This is the first of the seven "I am" statements in John that connects him with Jehovah.
2) I am the light of the world Jn 8:12
3) I am the door Jn 10:9
4) I am the good shepherd Jn 10:11
5) I am the way, the truth, and the life Jn 14:6
6) I am the true vine Jn 15:1
7) I am the resurrection and the life Jn 11:25

John's gospel is not about you like you are trying to make it, like he would choose you before the foundation of the earth when you can't even learn how to discern his word.

The bottom line about your comments is that you are trying to convince people here and yourself that God chose only a few to be saved and that you are one among that number when there is no way to prove it from scripture. Why? because it ain't so.

The good news is that there is still time to get it right by eating the Bread if you haven't already. We all had better be sure.

You have it consistently wrong, from mans fallen condition, from Jesus having a true humanity, to your lack of understanding God's sovereign election, and particular redemption.
You have no grasp of the Covenant of Grace and have expressed consistently Apollinarian heresy in your posts.
maybe slow your roll seeking to attack brethren who understand the biblical teaching.
From the banner of truth;
And this is where Apollinarius went astray, he tried to answer the question of ‘how it was done.’ He began with the question, ‘what is man?’ meaning this in terms of nature; what is human nature, and how does the Incarnation work in terms of that nature. The human nature is, we know, made up of both a physical and a spiritual component, but there has been, and remains to this day, a debate as to whether human nature is made up of two parts or three; the so-called Trichotomist debate. Apollinarius seems originally have held to a Dichotomist position, that man consists of body and soul. In his eagerness to explain the Incarnation, while emphasising the unity and true deity of the person of Christ,
Apollinarius fell into the trap of denying the full humanity of Christ, for he taught that the Divine nature took the place of an element of the human nature.

In his earlier writings he spoke of the ‘enfleshed Divinity’, and by it meant that the human soul was, in Jesus, replaced by the Divine person. Later on, probably in an effort to answer his critics, Apollinarius moved to the Trichotomist position, that human nature consists of three parts, the body, the soul, and the spirit, and that in the Incarnation the Divine nature took the place of the human spirit, conceived of as the highest part of man’s nature.

You have been suggesting this heresy both here and the other thread...

Furthermore, Jesus reveals Himself to be the True Israel, the True Exodus for the Elect Children from all time.
The Election took place before the world was, and as you continue to fawn over unbelieving Israel ,rather than the Elect remnant that help form the True Israel, you now strike out at someone who has a better grasp on it that you do.
The promise made to Adam and Eve was worldwide, and universal.Gen3:15.
That the nation of Israel was singled out , in type, for the True Holy nation, you try and make the whole ball of wax.

 

[JD731]

You have it consistently wrong, from mans fallen condition, from Jesus having a true humanity, to your lack of understanding God's sovereign election, and particular redemption.
You have no grasp of the Covenant of Grace and have expressed consistently Apollinarian heresy in your posts.
maybe slow your roll seeking to attack brethren who understand the biblical teaching.
From the banner of truth;
And this is where Apollinarius went astray, he tried to answer the question of ‘how it was done.’ He began with the question, ‘what is man?’ meaning this in terms of nature; what is human nature, and how does the Incarnation work in terms of that nature. The human nature is, we know, made up of both a physical and a spiritual component, but there has been, and remains to this day, a debate as to whether human nature is made up of two parts or three; the so-called Trichotomist debate. Apollinarius seems originally have held to a Dichotomist position, that man consists of body and soul. In his eagerness to explain the Incarnation, while emphasising the unity and true deity of the person of Christ,
Apollinarius fell into the trap of denying the full humanity of Christ, for he taught that the Divine nature took the place of an element of the human nature.

In his earlier writings he spoke of the ‘enfleshed Divinity’, and by it meant that the human soul was, in Jesus, replaced by the Divine person. Later on, probably in an effort to answer his critics, Apollinarius moved to the Trichotomist position, that human nature consists of three parts, the body, the soul, and the spirit, and that in the Incarnation the Divine nature took the place of the human spirit, conceived of as the highest part of man’s nature.

You have been suggesting this heresy both here and the other thread...

Nobody has ever heard of Apollinarius or Apollinarian but Calvinists. It is a distraction. It is obfuscation. Nobody has ever heard about a covenant of grace, except Calvinists. Almost every religion, especially those that connects themselves with Christianity claims they are the only ones God is interested in saving. The Roman Catholics are certainly that way and that is the mother of the Protestant Reformation that birthed Calvinism as a mainstream religion. Augustine has been dubbed the father of the Roman Catholic Church and his writings mentored John Calvin. James says the same spring cannot bring forth sweet water and bitter.

What I have shown you is that Jesus Christ is the bread of life in John 6 and Jews in that day who knew their Bibles, which is in essence, being "taught of the Father," came to Jesus and ate of his body, the thing that this discourse says they must do to have everlasting life and be resurrected in their bodies at the last day. Now, I am not making this up. I have quoted it to you now more than once and you have never believed it because you have been told to look over there at Jn 6:44 and not look at the context and what is actually said.

Jesus Christ must be in a person for them to have life and the person who has Jesus Christ in them must eat. The bread was there and all could have eaten, but not all did. Jesus equated eating as believing. They all went away and were lost. How many times does the Bible say that Jesus Christ is life. He does not have life, he is life. Life outside of yourself will not help you. John makes the case that one must eat the Son of God to have everlasting life. That is the story of the scriptures.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Glory is hoped for because no believer has yet received the glorified body that we have been promised when Jesus comes for us and to which we as a member of the church of Jesus Christ has been predestined to.

It is that simple.