There is a disconnect somewhere in your mind. The word you are looking for is not in the Greek, it is in the English. It is CALVINISM. Do you realize that you actually teach that most of the billions of people who live on this earth and have lived on this earth were created for the express reason to go to hell? You teach that you are a special sinner to God and by him saving you and sending all these billions to hell it somehow showcases the goodness of God and his marvelous grace and kindness. It is perversion and exaltation of yourself.
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There is a disconnect somewhere in your mind. The word you are looking for is not in the Greek, it is in the English. It is CALVINISM. Do you realize that you actually teach that most of the billions of people who live on this earth and have lived on this earth were created for the express reason to go to hell? You teach that you are a special sinner to God and by him saving you and sending all these billions to hell it somehow showcases the goodness of God and his marvelous grace and kindness. It is perversion and exaltation of yourself.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
You are not playing honestly with scripture when you make a deliberate choice to quote only HALF a verse and claim you cannot understand how others claim it says what it says.
[John 6:44 NASB95] 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
If God draws ALL (as you claim) and all that are drawn are saved (as the missing part of verse you quoted states), then are you prepared to embrace ALL ARE SAVED and explain away all of the verses about punishment for the wicked?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
A few things:
1. Why bother to preach the Gospel? Because God commanded us to. That's really all you need to know. It is a direct command from God.
2. Why do they need to be dragged? Because it is against their desire. We have made that abundantly clear, as has Scripture. We are talking about changing the desire/will of a man.
3. Luke 13 needs to be read in the broader context.
No, the Bible is not against the Reformed view and nothing is being "forced" as you put it. You simply hate reformed theology so you kick against it at all cost. Your views on the matter are irrational at best.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
You are kidding right?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I get it, you don't like what the Bible actually says. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy. Some are prepared for destruction. That is what Scripture states, not the Calvinist Theology. We did not originate that, it is Scripture. If you have a problem with it you have a problem with God, but who are you oh man to question God?
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Do you realize that JESUS said that most people will go to hell?
So you blame me for teaching truth.
(And I do not teach that is the purpose for which they were created, I teach that is the purpose God has given them over to [see Romans 1:18-32] … following their desire.)
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
No they don't. They don't realize it because they hate reformed theology at all costs even if it means denying and ignoring large swaths of Scripture. It's rabid and irrational.
Ro 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my (Paul's)) gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of
the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest,
and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
Following is the first paragraph in the scriptures that is addressed specifically to gentiles or to the nations. It marks a pivot point in the unfolding drama of redemption that God is playing out on the stage of history. It does not reveal a special class of sinners but demonstrates that all sinners are the same and the one sacrifice for sin, Jesus Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection is the gospel of God, the good news to all the nations of the world that he has made a way to be saved. Therefore, the gospel of God is predicated upon the gospel of Jesus Christ and God can and will receive all sinners that come to him in his name seeing as how he has paid the penalty of sin and removed it and now since he has provided this for the whole world at such a high price, his only begotten son, and his salvation is now completed and free to everyone without a single work being required, he has the right to command everyone everywhere to repent and believe the gospel, seeing as how he is the judge of all the earth.
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated (from the other apostles - see Eph 3) unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: 7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
I cannot get over how wonderful and glorious this gospel is.
WHAT DOES IT TAKE NOW TO BE SAVED?
23 Now it was not written for his (ABRAHAM IN CONTEXT) sake alone, that it (righteousness of God) was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered (by God the Father) for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
One must believe the gospel of God to be saved. That is the condition for salvation and the gospel of Christ is included in this gospel.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him (God the Father) that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; (See Gal 1:1) 25 Who was delivered (by God the Father) for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Acts 17
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
I pray God that this expression of your gospel be received by the Reformed and Jesus Christ will be exalted and receive glory from this preaching in this post.
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my (Paul's)) gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of
the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest,
and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
Following is the first paragraph in the scriptures that is addressed specifically to gentiles or to the nations. It marks a pivot point in the unfolding drama of redemption that God is playing out on the stage of history. It does not reveal a special class of sinners but demonstrates that all sinners are the same and the one sacrifice for sin, Jesus Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection is the gospel of God, the good news to all the nations of the world that he has made a way to be saved. Therefore, the gospel of God is predicated upon the gospel of Jesus Christ and God can and will receive all sinners that come to him in his name seeing as how he has paid the penalty of sin and removed it and now since he has provided this for the whole world at such a high price, his only begotten son, and his salvation is now completed and free to everyone without a single work being required, he has the right to command everyone everywhere to repent and believe the gospel, seeing as how he is the judge of all the earth.
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated (from the other apostles - see Eph 3) unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: 7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
I cannot get over how wonderful and glorious this gospel is.
WHAT DOES IT TAKE NOW TO BE SAVED?
23 Now it was not written for his (ABRAHAM IN CONTEXT) sake alone, that it (righteousness of God) was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered (by God the Father) for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
One must believe the gospel of God to be saved. That is the condition for salvation and the gospel of Christ is included in this gospel.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him (God the Father) that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; (See Gal 1:1) 25 Who was delivered (by God the Father) for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Acts 17
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
I pray God that this expression of your gospel be received by the Reformed and Jesus Christ will be exalted and receive glory from this preaching in this post.
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Consider the logic of your comments. There is surely a disconnect somewhere.
You had better believe I hate Reformed theology but I do not hate you. You have been duped into denying all scripture but to your credit you have not attempted to convince anyone from the scriptures that Reformed theology is true. One cannot teach anything with one liners such as your MO that does nothing but show disdain for the truth.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Right, because I never exegete anything, oh brother. I've not been duped into anything, and I definitely do not deny Scripture. You have no biblical basis in hating reformed theology, why? Reformed theology is a synonym for biblical theology. You the doctrines of Grace you hate the Bible. Period.
18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not. Ro 7
Look at the deeply disturbed thought patterns of those who hate the truth of God. Another blame God for mans sin post.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
what did he know about them?
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
You do realise Paul spoke present tense in this
He was not speaking about his past.. before he was saved.
yet even if he was. The tax collector did not do a good deed when he got on his knees in desperation. He did what all people do when they come to christ. He called out for mercy. because he realised how dire and bancrupt he was
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
It is just a typical response to Calvinism. Since everything is ordained to happen.. and since men have no free will. then it is logical that God must be responsible..
K. So? What's your point?
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
John 6: 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 3: 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
John 4:
13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
I can go on and on and on.
God predestined that these people will be justified. based on his truth..
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
read the rest of that post
I did. What's your point?
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