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John 6:37

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E

Eternally Grateful

Active Member
atpollard said:
God knew the people, as individuals, before he predestined them.
The “foreknew” is about God being deeply personal and relational, it is not about “knowledge”. God did not choose YOU because He knew what you would do or say, rather God chose YOU because He knew YOU and wanted YOU.
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You can;t be personal and relation with a person unless they have free will. Thats why he tested Adam in the garden. If he made it so adam could never sin. there there is no relationship.

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Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Guido said:
“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. - John 6:37

Here we see that two truths are stated: one, those whom the Father gives to Jesus and those who will come to Jesus are in the same group, (Nothing beyond that is stated, or can be inferred, from this statement.) and two, those who come to Jesus and those who Jesus will never cast out are in the same group.

What does this have to do with Calvinism? How do this prove Calvinism. I see no way this passage can be taken to say what Calvinists twist is to say. He did not say, "All whom the Father giveth to me shall come to me, because he gave them to me." He did not say that. So what is there point?

I must admit that I did not read this in a commentary. But this is what I see as the plain meaning of this passage.
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Here are a few things we have to take into consideration when we venture into a discussion about salvation.

"If all men went to hell, they would be receiving only what they deserve."

"If anyone is saved, it is because of the free grace of God."

"God makes a universal good faith offer—that if a man will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, he will be saved."

"God does not save men against their will."

"A person must come to Him in repentance and faith."

"Then God will save him."
 
E

Eternally Grateful

Active Member
Silverhair said:
Here are a few things we have to take into consideration when we venture into a discussion about salvation.

"If all men went to hell, they would be receiving only what they deserve."

"If anyone is saved, it is because of the free grace of God."

"God makes a universal good faith offer—that if a man will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, he will be saved."

"God does not save men against their will."

"A person must come to Him in repentance and faith."

"Then God will save him."
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Amen, And God has the right to do it this way.. He has the right and ability to set aside his will and his sovereignty in order to grant the people the ability to chose to say yes or no to his gracious gift of salvation without forcing his will on them.

Remember, God has the right to snap his fingers and destroy every one who ever lived, He had the right to kill off adam and eve and stop the human race.

But he chose not only to allow them to Live, But to come and die in their place.

Israel had to chose to look up at the serpent when Moses raised it. If they did they lived if not they died.

As jesus said in John 3 in like manner he will be raised, that in like manner whoever look up (in belief) will be saved, whoever does not will die.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Eternally Grateful said:
You not posting my whole quote. You cut my post down to one part and are trying to grill me on it.

Post the whole post I made. or lets move on.
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K.

Eternally Grateful said:
You do realise Paul spoke present tense in this

He was not speaking about his past.. before he was saved.

yet even if he was. The tax collector did not do a good deed when he got on his knees in desperation. He did what all people do when they come to christ. He called out for mercy. because he realised how dire and bancrupt he was
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K. Now, specifically what is your point?

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Is this supposed to somehow refute total depravity? Or what? What is your point?
 
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Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Iconoclast said:
Try reading the whole thought, jn6:37-44..
Also All the Father gives shall come, and Him that comes, are not two different groups, but they are one and the same.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
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I would suggest that you extend that reading from Joh 6:35 - Joh 6:47.
Joh 6:35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
Joh 6:47 Very truly, I tell you, whoever believes has eternal life.

But we should ask, who are the ones that believe in the Son? We find that answer here:
Joh 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Joh 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
Joh 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Christ Jesus came to do the will of God the Father and that will was to save all those that would believe in Him. Certain persons are not selected and then given to Jesus in order to become believers, as some assert, but rather people are given to Jesus because they are already believers.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Iconoclast said:
In romans8...it says WHOM HE DID FOREKNOW...NOT WHAT HE DID FOREKNOW
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Whom did He foreknow? That would be those that He knew would, through their own free will, choose to accept His son. And He predestined them to be conformed to the image of His son
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Iconoclast said:
God foreknew the people, those elected and given to the Son.

Biblical foreknowledge is of the people themselves *:29-30..

Not God looking into the future.
Not God knowing ahead of time is they would do something, believe, not believe, repent,etc
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Do you not think God is omniscient?
 
C

Campion

Member
Calvinism sees God's sovereignty as determining human will, whereas Christianity sees God's sovereignty as incorporating human will (through infallible foreknowledge). God's predestination incorporates His foreknowledge of people's choices. God foresees all who will be saved, and these are the elect (Romans 8:28-30). God doesn't "look into the future", as eternity is immediately present to Him.

Likewise, God does not predestine anyone to hell either. Rather, He passively allows what He knows they will choose by their own free will.
 
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