Featured John 6:37

You can;t be personal and relation with a person unless they have free will. Thats why he tested Adam in the garden. If he made it so adam could never sin. there there is no relationship.

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Then you read my answer to your question

 

Who said it was something about them that he knew?

 

And where do you get that from Scripture?

 

Who said he did not?

 

Here are a few things we have to take into consideration when we venture into a discussion about salvation.

"If all men went to hell, they would be receiving only what they deserve."

"If anyone is saved, it is because of the free grace of God."

"God makes a universal good faith offer—that if a man will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, he will be saved."

"God does not save men against their will."

"A person must come to Him in repentance and faith."

"Then God will save him."

 

show me a loving relationship, where there is no free will. where everything is done exactly as planned.

 

It sounds like you're saying Paul's past self had some good in him but his present self didn't.

 

Amen, And God has the right to do it this way.. He has the right and ability to set aside his will and his sovereignty in order to grant the people the ability to chose to say yes or no to his gracious gift of salvation without forcing his will on them.

Remember, God has the right to snap his fingers and destroy every one who ever lived, He had the right to kill off adam and eve and stop the human race.

But he chose not only to allow them to Live, But to come and die in their place.

Israel had to chose to look up at the serpent when Moses raised it. If they did they lived if not they died.

As jesus said in John 3 in like manner he will be raised, that in like manner whoever look up (in belief) will be saved, whoever does not will die.

 

You not posting my whole quote. You cut my post down to one part and are trying to grill me on it.

Post the whole post I made. or lets move on.

 

It's called don't read something into Scripture that isn't there.

 

I said show me your viewpoint's support from Scripture. Are you not able to do so? If not, then you should probably abandon your viewpoint.

 

K.

K. Now, specifically what is your point?

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Is this supposed to somehow refute total depravity? Or what? What is your point?

 

I would suggest that you extend that reading from Joh 6:35 - Joh 6:47.
Joh 6:35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
Joh 6:47 Very truly, I tell you, whoever believes has eternal life.

But we should ask, who are the ones that believe in the Son? We find that answer here:
Joh 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Joh 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
Joh 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Christ Jesus came to do the will of God the Father and that will was to save all those that would believe in Him. Certain persons are not selected and then given to Jesus in order to become believers, as some assert, but rather people are given to Jesus because they are already believers.

 

Whom did He foreknow? That would be those that He knew would, through their own free will, choose to accept His son. And He predestined them to be conformed to the image of His son

 

Do you not think God is omniscient?

 

amazing how everything that is not calvinst is blasphemous. When did God make you the arbiter of faith and bible understanding. You and Austin do seem to be a bit arrogant.

 

Calvinism sees God's sovereignty as determining human will, whereas Christianity sees God's sovereignty as incorporating human will (through infallible foreknowledge). God's predestination incorporates His foreknowledge of people's choices. God foresees all who will be saved, and these are the elect (Romans 8:28-30). God doesn't "look into the future", as eternity is immediately present to Him.

Likewise, God does not predestine anyone to hell either. Rather, He passively allows what He knows they will choose by their own free will.

 

So they were already believers before the foundation of the world? Yeah something is wrong with that assertion.

 

Except that isn't what is stated in Scripture.