John MacArthur

[Reynolds]

I repeat. So Copelands 300 million is perfectly fine?

Do you have Scripture that says it is not?
It is not my place to judge him. I disagree with him on a lot of doctrine, but I am not his judge.
I was actually invited to meet with him on his CitationX jet, but could not due to scheduling conflicts.
I stayed in same hotel with Creflo Dollar for a week. He really surprised me. He is down to earth. No entourage etc. Just him, his wife, and daughters. Real friendly person. Seemed to enjoy hanging out and talking to people. Bunch of us so around every night and talk.

 

[Salty]

I don't want ya to feel mudholed, but I agree with Reynolds.

When we start focusing on what others have we lose focus on what we have.

Because what we've failed to remember ... it's ALL God's; Psalm 24 ...

...So there's always more to the apparent situation in these things.

Accountability is necessary for all of us ... let's just keep it at accountability rather than judgment because we do not know the heart of another man, but only the fruit of their spirit.

I am not trying to judge - so to speak -
Rather what do critics of Christianity have to say about this?
Often they will look for things that will bring reproach on the Lord.
But really, what is the purpose of 3 homes? Am I envious of Mac - NO
(in fact my brother has been extremely successful in his business life. Yes, he has a second home - a cabin up in the woods - he works extremely hard - and often it is good to get away)

Since some are trying to defend Mac - that has caused me to do a little bit more research. Evidently his ministry (ies) are no longer part of the EFCA- The Evangelical Council of Financial Accountability.
Why would Mac not want to be part of EFCA?

Here is a critic of Mac - very lengthy article - but well worth the read
The Prosperous Lifestyle of America's Anti-Prosperity Gospel Preacher | The Roys Report

So - lets ask this question here:
You are trying to witness to some one - and all they are considering that religious leaders like Osteen, Myers, Hinn, ect are just in for the money. - we might be able to answer that - but if they mention Stanely, Mac, Billy and Franklin Grahmn, Robert Jeffress and ect???

 

[SavedByGrace]

Do you have Scripture that says it is not?
It is not my place to judge him. I disagree with him on a lot of doctrine, but I am not his judge.
I was actually invited to meet with him on his CitationX jet, but could not due to scheduling conflicts.
I stayed in same hotel with Creflo Dollar for a week. He really surprised me. He is down to earth. No entourage etc. Just him, his wife, and daughters. Real friendly person. Seemed to enjoy hanging out and talking to people. Bunch of us so around every night and talk.

Creflo is a rich heretic!

 

[Reynolds]

I am not trying to judge - so to speak -
Rather what do critics of Christianity have to say about this?
Often they will look for things that will bring reproach on the Lord.
But really, what is the purpose of 3 homes? Am I envious of Mac - NO
(in fact my brother has been extremely successful in his business life. Yes, he has a second home - a cabin up in the woods - he works extremely hard - and often it is good to get away)

Since some are trying to defend Mac - that has caused me to do a little bit more research. Evidently his ministry (ies) are no longer part of the EFCA- The Evangelical Council of Financial Accountability.
Why would Mac not want to be part of EFCA?

Here is a critic of Mac - very lengthy article - but well worth the read
The Prosperous Lifestyle of America's Anti-Prosperity Gospel Preacher | The Roys Report

So - lets ask this question here:
You are trying to witness to some one - and all they are considering that religious leaders like Osteen, Myers, Hinn, ect are just in for the money. - we might be able to answer that - but if they mention Stanely, Mac, Billy and Franklin Grahmn, Robert Jeffress and ect???

What Scripture prohibits a pastor having money?
The parable of the widow's mite comes to mind.
A church has a gross income of $35000 per year. Their pastor makes $25,000 per year.
TV preachers ministry has gross income of $400 million per year. He makes $3 million per year.
Who took the most out of their ministry????

If you are going to seriously address "stumbling blocks", I am sure there is a lot of church discipline you will have to initiate in your own church.
I believe this subject is precisely what is addressed by "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

 

[SavedByGrace]

What Scripture prohibits a pastor having money?
The parable of the widow's mite comes to mind.
A church has a gross income of $35000 per year. Their pastor makes $25,000 per year.
TV preachers ministry has gross income of $400 million per year. He makes $3 million per year.
Who took the most out of their ministry????

How can any Christian ministry be worth 400 million???

 

[Salty]

How can any Christian ministry be worth 400 million???

Net worth - building - equipment, - and if it is a radio/tv ministry - you will have a lot of technical equipment.

 

[Two Wings]

Rather what do critics of Christianity have to say about this?

OH ... sorry, I missed the "devil's advocate" perspective.

Stanely, Mac, Billy and Franklin Grahmn, Robert Jeffress and ect???

the same as above. We don't know the heart of these people. "I don't know yours, you don't know mine. But we should know it's ALL God's and we are to be good stewards of that" ... Noah wasn't of meager means. He preached for about 120 years, right? he had his sons contracting work with people who'd eventually perish ... and they didn't work for free.

Are we going to judge God's judgement on the people?

I appreciate the question now ... as a defense to prosecution as it were. They really can't have that answer until they can receive understanding from The Spirit. I wouldn't tell a lost person that ... but it's the truth.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Net worth - building - equipment, - and if it is a radio/tv ministry - you will have a lot of technical equipment.

But Copelands personal wealth is 300 MILLION!!!

 

[Salty]

I believe this subject is precisely what is addressed by "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

I have started a new thread on this:
Judge Not

 

[Salty]

But Copelands personal wealth is 300 MILLION!!!

You are absolutely correct - I doubt that 300 m includes the ministry assets (which is tax free)

Lets take a look at R. G. LeTourneau. He would keep "God's 10% 'Thithe' " and give his 90% to the work of Christian ministry. R. G. LeTourneau - Wikipedia

I wonder how many of the aforementioned millionares would be willing to do the same!
Just saying.

 

[SavedByGrace]

You are absolutely correct - I doubt that 300 m includes the ministry assets (which is tax free)

Lets take a look at R. G. LeTourneau. He would keep "God's 10% 'Thithe' " and give his 90% to the work of Christian ministry. R. G. LeTourneau - Wikipedia

I wonder how many of the aforementioned millionares would be willing to do the same!
Just saying.

Probably zero!

 

[Reynolds]

You are absolutely correct - I doubt that 300 m includes the ministry assets (which is tax free)

Lets take a look at R. G. LeTourneau. He would keep "God's 10% 'Thithe' " and give his 90% to the work of Christian ministry. R. G. LeTourneau - Wikipedia

I wonder how many of the aforementioned millionares would be willing to do the same!
Just saying.

 

[Reynolds]

You are absolutely correct - I doubt that 300 m includes the ministry assets (which is tax free)

Lets take a look at R. G. LeTourneau. He would keep "God's 10% 'Thithe' " and give his 90% to the work of Christian ministry. R. G. LeTourneau - Wikipedia

I wonder how many of the aforementioned millionares would be willing to do the same!
Just saying.

My grandfather worked for him. They stopped work every morning for prayer.

 

[Yeshua1]

I said scripture does not prohibit it. By rules of debate, I do not prove a negative. The burden falls on the person holding to an affirmative to state the affirmative evidence that refutes the negative claim.

Big difference between Dr Mac and Heretic Copeland, as Dr Mac promotes real Jesus and real Gospel, Copeland false ones!

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you have Scripture that says it is not?
It is not my place to judge him. I disagree with him on a lot of doctrine, but I am not his judge.
I was actually invited to meet with him on his CitationX jet, but could not due to scheduling conflicts.
I stayed in same hotel with Creflo Dollar for a week. He really surprised me. He is down to earth. No entourage etc. Just him, his wife, and daughters. Real friendly person. Seemed to enjoy hanging out and talking to people. Bunch of us so around every night and talk.

They both hold to and teach damnable heresies though!

 

[just-want-peace]

... it's ALL God's; Psalm 24-------

This thought has more than helped me to NOT focus on $$$!
Mid 70s - my family was me, wife, daughter, & son - (both less than 10YO.)
I had developed a habit of every payday sticking back a few bucks saving for something I really
wanted; stereo, gun, tiller, etc.
More than once as I got close to fulfilling said purchase, something would break down: dryer shot, vehicle repairs, unplanned medical emergency, etc.
Every time, the $$ I had saved allowed us to take care of the need without going into debt.
At some point, still a mystery to me, I realized that it all belonged to God, & He had blessed me by providing the funds
BEFORE I needed 'em.
Since then, $ has been low on my priority list & the mental relief has been fantastic!!!!
Ain't God good!?

 

[Salty]

This thought has more than helped me to NOT focus on $$$! ...

... At some point, still a mystery to me, I realized that it all belonged to God, & He had blessed me by providing the funds
BEFORE I needed 'em.
Since then, $ has been low on my priority list & the mental relief has been fantastic!!!!
Ain't God good!?

Philp 4:11
"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content."

Wasn't the Apostle Paul worth a few million dollars......

 

[SavedByGrace]

Philp 4:11
"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content."

Wasn't the Apostle Paul worth a few million dollars......

Paul was a tent maker

 

[just-want-peace]

Philp 4:11
"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content."

Wasn't the Apostle Paul worth a few million dollars......

If you are speaking in CASH, I have no idea. BUT in the currency that is really critical I’d say most certainly!!!

 

[canadyjd]

This is for all Christians

1 Timothy 2:9

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Johnny Mac doesn’t have braided hair, he may wear a gold wedding ring, but I’m not sure, haven’t seen any pearls.

Now, we have to define “costly array”. I suspect that is relative to where you live. So, $500 suit not ok, $75 goodwill special is ok?

As long as we are casting judgment, let’s make sure the watch doesn’t cost more than $50, and the shoes $40. If he owns a car it can’t be new, must have at least 100,000 miles with fender damage from a deer strike.

By all means, let’s make sure we keep Johnny Mac a humble servant since his ministry is so successful.

Strange how such an obviously Godly man doesn’t have the spiritual discipline to keep SBG happy

peace to you