Diane,
I have seen that you found the fallacy in the "universalist" understanding in the verse because of the connection between ALL that are drawn and ALL that are lifted up... good.
You are not a universalist. I was just showing you the fallacy of the understanding that you where promoting before your last post...
BUT.... Help me out with your last comments..
They seem fractured to me...
The HOLY SPIRIT draws men . Some accept and some reject. Those who yield, are drawn , are led, accept, are wooed.... will be raised up at the last day. The others will perish.
First you said that the Holy Spirit Draws ALL men, but now you are saying that the only ones that are drawn are the ones who YIELD? You can't have it both ways. You are trying to disconnect the link between those drawn and those lifted up. First you WANT it to say "All are drawn,but to deny universalism you then say "No, wait a minute God draws ALL but OUT of those drawn some reject and some accept and OUT OF the ones DRAWN (everybody) only the ones that accept are DRAWN (meaning NOT everybody, so you get out of universalism) Don't you see that you are confusing yourself?
If ALL are DRAWN it means THAT... ALL are drawn... it does NOT say all that are drawn AND ACCEPT my WOOING will come to the father, YOU CAN'T ADD TO THE SCRIPTURE !
It is ALL that are drawn are lifted up.
Even in your own statement you say that ALL are not DRAWN by saying "Those who YIELD are drawn"... That is implying then MY point that ALL are not drawn BUT ONLY the ones that God will lift up are drawn, which systematically means ALL are not ABLE... funny which in the preceding phrase of the verse is exactly what Jesus said "No man is ABLE to come"
But please Diane you can not add your "ideas" into scripture, it means ALL that the father draws WILL be lifted up. Either all men are not Drawn, which you actually said (only those who yield are drawn, which shows since all do not yield then all are NOT drawn proving election) or ALL men ARE DRAWN and ALL will be lifted up.
So in short, your statement which I need help in understanding is ... All are drawn but only those who yield are drawn?.... don't you see that is self refuting? Or am I missing something?
And I think you assumed quite a bit by saying I questioned your salvation. No where in any post have I ever questioned anyone's salvation. Universalists if anything believe that everybody is saved... that does not in ANY way put a doubt about ones salvation. Because one has an improper understanding about the peripherals of sotierology doesn't necessarily imply ANYTHING about ones salvation. If you understood it that way then you have a problem with thinking you know my intentions because you can't blame me in any way by what has been said on this thread.
Do you know how many Pastor's and ministers and those in ministries go to see John Piper? I have a ministry and am in school right now to become a theologian... does this exclude me then from going to church? I was an assisting pastor at a church for nine years though, at a Calvary Chapel, that is before I decided to take my theology seriously and got tired of giving man centered, humanistic sermonettes.