Jonah and Universal Atonement

[TCassidy]

1John 3:20
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Yes, the saved will exhibit certain characteristics, a family likeness, but those characteristics do not save them. They are the result of salvation.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Yes, God's people will love and obey God, but that is not what saves us, that is the result of our salvation.

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Yes, God will reject all those who think that law keeping will get them to heaven. The only way to heaven is by the Grace of God.

 

[Esther Thompson]

We all know we are saved by the grace of God but we will be judged by our works. And the ONLY ones who will be allowed into Heaven are they that keep the commandments of God.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[TCassidy]

John 6:29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

 

[MennoSota]

1John 3:20
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

This is a message to the elect.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

How do you discern who is and isn't a Christian?

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

God's Sovereign choice according to His will, not ours.

 

[Yeshua1]

1John 3:20
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

All of those passages describe those lost, who merely professed Christ!

 

[Esther Thompson]

John 6:29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

The Bible says the devils believe and tremble, and that faith without works is dead, being alone.

 

[comitatus1]

The Book of Jonah is one of the greatest accounts of God's Mercy to a very sinful and wicked people, which shows beyond any doubt the wideness of God's Love and Mercy and Forgiveness, that is NOT limited to the "elect" as some distort to be the case. No "Calvinist" can ever explain the Mercy and Salvation of God to the people Nineveh, who were noted for the cruelty in the way they treated the Jews, and the main reason why Jonah did not want to give them the Gospel Message. Even Jonah's running away on the ship was used by God to save the sailors, who no doubt accepted the Lord (1:16). In chapter 3 we read of the people of Nineveh responding to the message from God, that they ALL should repent and turn from their evil ways, and hope on the Mercy of the Lord. Who responded by saving them. God tells Jonah, "And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock" (4:11). Some have suggested that the total number in this city was about 600,000. Can any honest person say that ALL those saved, were only the "elect"? Surely this is one of the greatest PROOFS of the Great Love that our Great God has towards the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, and shows that the teaching of Christ only dying for an "elect" few, is TOTALLY unbiblical. Also note in 3:10, "and God saw their WORKS", but not "works" to earn salvation, but as the text goes on to say, "that they TURNED from their evil way". Repentance is indeed something that we must DO, as we turn from our sins to the Living God for His salvation. So FAITH and WORKS is clearly in the Bible for salvation! ONLY the hard-line Calvinist, who is more interested in his "theology", and less in what the Bible actually teaches, will find some excuse to dismiss this mission story in Jonah, where God saves ALL who will truly repent and turn to Him for salvation. Praise His Great Name!!!

God didn't send Jonah into the city simply hoping for the best. God sent Jonah into the city to save those He willed to be saved. God can save one....God can save a million...it matters little what the numbers are...what matters is that God fulfills what He has intended. Jonah was just the instrument of that will.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Bible says the devils believe and tremble, and that faith without works is dead, being alone.

Saving faith produces the good works!

 

[Yeshua1]

God didn't send Jonah into the city simply hoping for the best. God sent Jonah into the city to save those He willed to be saved. God can save one....God can save a million...it matters little what the numbers are...what matters is that God fulfills what He has intended. Jonah was just the instrument of that will.

Would be really pathetic to have God stuck just hoping and wishing that some humans will get saved!

 

[ICHTHUS]

God didn't send Jonah into the city simply hoping for the best. God sent Jonah into the city to save those He willed to be saved. God can save one....God can save a million...it matters little what the numbers are...what matters is that God fulfills what He has intended. Jonah was just the instrument of that will.

I don't doubt that God wanted to save the city completely. The point I make is, that it CANNOT be argued that ALL of the city who were saved, were ONLY the "elect". In fact, as the Jews were the "elect" in the Old Testament, and these were NOT Jews, it shows beyond any doubt that God saved the NON ELECT. PRAISE HIM FOR HIS GREAT MERCY!

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't doubt that God wanted to save the city completely. The point I make is, that it CANNOT be argued that ALL of the city who were saved, were ONLY the "elect". In fact, as the Jews were the "elect" in the Old Testament, and these were NOT Jews, it shows beyond any doubt that God saved the NON ELECT. PRAISE HIM FOR HIS GREAT MERCY!

Jews were not the only saved in the OT, as Rahab was oine of the elect also!

 

[ICHTHUS]

Jews were not the only saved in the OT, as Rahab was oine of the elect also!

Indeed! But, when, for example the Bible says in John 1:2, "He came to His own", this is a reference ONLY to the Jews. But, when the Jews rejected Jesus as their Saviour, the Gentiles were then offered the same Salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

Indeed! But, when, for example the Bible says in John 1:2, "He came to His own", this is a reference ONLY to the Jews. But, when the Jews rejected Jesus as their Saviour, the Gentiles were then offered the same Salvation.

Just saying that God salvation was towards both jews/Gentiles in the Bible...

 

[bygrace4012]

The Book of Jonah is one of the greatest accounts of God's Mercy to a very sinful and wicked people, which shows beyond any doubt the wideness of God's Love and Mercy and Forgiveness, that is NOT limited to the "elect" as some distort to be the case. No "Calvinist" can ever explain the Mercy and Salvation of God to the people Nineveh, who were noted for the cruelty in the way they treated the Jews, and the main reason why Jonah did not want to give them the Gospel Message. Even Jonah's running away on the ship was used by God to save the sailors, who no doubt accepted the Lord (1:16). In chapter 3 we read of the people of Nineveh responding to the message from God, that they ALL should repent and turn from their evil ways, and hope on the Mercy of the Lord. Who responded by saving them. God tells Jonah, "And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock" (4:11). Some have suggested that the total number in this city was about 600,000. Can any honest person say that ALL those saved, were only the "elect"? Surely this is one of the greatest PROOFS of the Great Love that our Great God has towards the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, and shows that the teaching of Christ only dying for an "elect" few, is TOTALLY unbiblical. Also note in 3:10, "and God saw their WORKS", but not "works" to earn salvation, but as the text goes on to say, "that they TURNED from their evil way". Repentance is indeed something that we must DO, as we turn from our sins to the Living God for His salvation. So FAITH and WORKS is clearly in the Bible for salvation! ONLY the hard-line Calvinist, who is more interested in his "theology", and less in what the Bible actually teaches, will find some excuse to dismiss this mission story in Jonah, where God saves ALL who will truly repent and turn to Him for salvation. Praise His Great Name!!!

Free will is necessary for salvation.
One can not be saved without freely confessing that Jesus is Lord: Romans 10:9-10.
Some people hear the Gospel and think it is foolishness, and of course they then reject it: 1st Corinthians 1:18

The real question is WHY does someone freely and willfully embrace Jesus as Lord?
When you begin to delve into that, and get your answers from the Word of God, you will see why the atonement is particular.

Again, if you make it about free will, then you have t answer the WHY question.
Start with yourself, WHY did you embrace Jesus as Lord?

 

[TCassidy]

Free will is necessary for salvation.

I will agree, in that sense. In order for a person to believe, repent, and obey the Lord the will must be set free from the law of sin and death.

But after that the soul is now bound to the law of New Life in Christ.

 

[XYiftah]

Yes, God did choose to save these people, but ONLY if they repented when they heard the Gospel preached to them by Jonah. Repentance is the prerequisite for salvation, and NOT election as it is falsely taught by Calvinists. Read the account and see the condition placed on these people, to either repent and be saved, or reject the message and be damned. This is clearly free-will, as they had a choice given to them by God, something that Calvinism denies.

Yes, I agree we have free will...a stumbling block I think for some though is the fact that Jehovah knows who will and will and will not be saved....he gives free will to all but he knows who will and who will not believe. Jehovah is All-Mighty...he knows all. Some fail to understand the awesome power of Jehovah All-Mighty.

 

[kyredneck]

While talking to the unconverted, rebellious Jews, Jesus said:

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
45 But because I say the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. Jn 8

24 The Jews therefore came round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou hold us in suspense? If thou art the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the works that I do in my Father`s name, these bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. Jn 10

33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell? Mt 23

 

[comitatus1]

I don't doubt that God wanted to save the city completely.

God did save the city completely. There really was no 'wanting' about it.

The point I make is, that it CANNOT be argued that ALL of the city who were saved, were ONLY the "elect".

Sure it can.

In fact, as the Jews were the "elect" in the Old Testament, and these were NOT Jews, it shows beyond any doubt that God saved the NON ELECT. PRAISE HIM FOR HIS GREAT MERCY!

Romans 9 says otherwise about all the Jews being elect.

The non-elect are not saved...that's what makes them non-elect.

Chris