Justified By Works

[Reformed1689]

How does this reply to the passage from James

Simply put, James is not saying we are justified by works. He is saying that our works accompany our already held justification by faith. In other words, if you are not producing works, you also never had saving faith.

 

[canadyjd]

No, he means it as justified to stand in the judgement. Period.

Paul uses “justified” in terms of the forensic or legal sense. To be declared not guilty in judgement.

James uses justified in terms of validation, which is clear in the context. James says faith without works is not real faith, I.e. the works validate the profession of faith.

We can disagree as other Christians have for a couple thousand years.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[kathleenmariekg]

WVBS Online Bible School assigns this topic for their first research paper.
Curriculum - Course Schedule | WVBS Online School
Write a paper in your own words explaining Abraham's righteousness as it relates to his faith and obedience. In your paper you must refer to and explain the following verses: Genesis 15:6; 22:9-12; Hebrews 11:8-9, 17 and James 2:21-24
Genesis Optional Videos - WVBS Online Bible School

Here are some free "decent" resources.
BiblicalStudies.org.uk: James

Articles that don't have a link will sometimes pop up as free at Google Scholar.
Google Scholar
or
Open Access Digital Theological Library | a digital library for theology, religious studies, and related disciplines

One of the broken links is here
Jas2.pdf
or scroll down to volume 2 Fall 1997
James 2:21-24 and the Justification of Abraham
Detroit Baptist Seminary Journal - Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary

 

[kathleenmariekg]

I am not sure that I agree with what is taught in these videos about "decent" and "appropriate" commentaries, but at least I now know what is expected of me when people say that to me. I had to work really hard to find the free resources that allow me to participate in certain conversations without having to pay for that priviledge.

LibGuides: Bible Commentaries Guide: Home

Media Player

The Research Process

 

[SavedByGrace]

Simply put, James is not saying we are justified by works. He is saying that our works accompany our already held justification by faith. In other words, if you are not producing works, you also never had saving faith.

The example James uses of Rahab, is very important, "And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?". Rahab feared for her and her families lives, and helped the Jewish spies, and was promised not to be destroyed. These are all "good deeds", with her "faith" in the promises made to her for her safety. This is also prior to her being "saved", and not good works after she became a believer in the One True God. This is James' meaning. As in that of Jonah 3, where, after we read, "Let everyone turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. Who knows? God may turn and relent and turn from his fierce anger, so that we may not perish.” (8-9), that it says in verse 10, "And God saw their WORKS, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not" (KJV). Clearly "works", based on their "turning from their evil ways".

 

[SavedByGrace]

Paul uses “justified” in terms of the forensic or legal sense. To be declared not guilty in judgement.

James uses justified in terms of validation, which is clear in the context. James says faith without works is not real faith, I.e. the works validate the profession of faith.

We can disagree as other Christians have for a couple thousand years.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

what of James' use of Rahab? it is very clear that her "actions" were "before" she and her house-hold were "saved", based on the "promises" made to her? As that in Jonah chapter 3, when "God saw their WORKS (verse 10), "that they had turned from their evil ways", that God "saved" them? This is very clear if you don't read these accounts from "theology", but as the Bible plainly says.

 

[SavedByGrace]

No, he means it as justified to stand in the judgement. Period.

Justified as in being made "right" with God. Period!

 

[canadyjd]

what of James' use of Rahab? it is very clear that her "actions" were "before" she and her house-hold were "saved", based on the "promises" made to her? As that in Jonah chapter 3, when "God saw their WORKS (verse 10), "that they had turned from their evil ways", that God "saved" them? This is very clear if you don't read these accounts from "theology", but as the Bible plainly says.

Please show me from scripture where Rahab is said to be “saved” after God saw her “good works”.

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

Please show me from scripture where Rahab is said to be “saved” after God saw her “good works”.

peace to you

the account in James is very clear, that AFTER her "good works" by helping the Jews, that she was "justified". I know you don't like this, but it is exactly what the Bible teaches! Also, deal with Jonah.

Read it again "And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?".

 

[canadyjd]

the account in James is very clear, that AFTER her "good works" by helping the Jews, that she was "justified". I know you don't like this, but it is exactly what the Bible teaches! Also, deal with Jonah.

Read it again "And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?".

Once again, James uses the word “justified” with reference to validation not a legal justification in judgement leading to salvation.

That is the.opinion of the Adam Clarke commentary that you quoted as a “decent” commentary.

Her faith was validated by her works. That is the context of James.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

Once again, James uses the word “justified” with reference to validation not a legal justification in judgement leading to salvation

you say this because of you were to accept the normal use of the term here, then your "theology" is FAULTY! Typical Calvinistic nonsense, as is the pervision of "world" in John 3:16, to limit this to the "elect" only!

 

[George Antonios]

This is from the Word of Almighty God, where we read very clearly, that both Abraham and Rahab were JUSTIFIED by their WORKS.

Partially correct, for, whereas James references the Jewish Abraham of Genesis 22 to prove justification by works, Paul references the Gentile Abraham (Abram) of Genesis 15 to prove justification without works.

This is EXACTLY what Peter says in Acts chapter 10!

Peter did not say a man is justified by faith in works in Acts 10. In Acts 15 he himself says: Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God [which is what you're doing now], to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Both FAITH and WORKS are referred to as two equal parts for Justification with the Lord.

You are absolutely right, but in the wrong dispensation. Before the Pauline revelation of justification without works, under what was still a legal system, justification was by faith and works, and will be so again during the tribulation and the millennial kingdom, but during the church age, justification is by faith without works.

 

[37818]

. . . Gentile Abraham (Abram) of Genesis 15 . . . .

Was a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13. (2 Corinthians 11:22).

 

[MB]

Once again, James uses the word “justified” with reference to validation not a legal justification in judgement leading to salvation.

That is the.opinion of the Adam Clarke commentary that you quoted as a “decent” commentary.

Her faith was validated by her works. That is the context of James.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

What about Paul saying'?
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
MB

 

[kyredneck]

Paul uses “justified” in terms of the forensic or legal sense. To be declared not guilty in judgement.

Yes. Agree:

5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 who will render to every man according to his works:
7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
10 but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2

James uses justified in terms of validation, which is clear in the context.

Well, you're right along with with the 'justification by faith alone' herd with this erroneous assessment. Never mind that the works James is referring to are the very works we're going to be judged by:

27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Ja 1
15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,
16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? Ja 2

4 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Mt 25

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mt 25

James says faith without works is not real faith, I.e. the works validate the profession of faith.

Are you also in agreement with the erroneous assessment of the 'justification by faith alone' crowd that our good works comes from our faith?

 

[canadyjd]

you say this because of you were to accept the normal use of the term here, then your "theology" is FAULTY! Typical Calvinistic nonsense, as is the pervision of "world" in John 3:16, to limit this to the "elect" only!

The “normal” use of any word is always determined by context.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

….
Are you also in agreement with the erroneous assessment of the 'justification by faith alone' crowd that our good works comes from our faith?

My only desire is to be in agreement with scripture.

You are quoting the Apostle Paul when you charge as an erroneous assessment that we are “justified by faith alone…”

I attempt to harmonize all the accounts concerning justification, works, faith and how they are related.

My understanding results in no need to dismiss certain verses, or take any verse out of context or mock others opinions or mock the Apostles or scripture.

I am at peace with my understanding. If any one could show me from scripture that I’m wrong, I would gladly change my mind.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

The “normal” use of any word is always determined by context.

peace to you

Yeah your context

 

[kyredneck]

You are quoting the Apostle Paul when you charge as an erroneous assessment that we are “justified by faith alone…”

FTR not once did Paul teach “justified by faith alone”. In fact, no where in the scriptures does anyone teach “justified by faith alone”. In fact, it is expressly taught in the scriptures that justification is NOT by faith alone. The early Reformers went too far in refuting the errors of Rome and there's been a domino effect in spreading their error over the centuries.

 

[Yeshua1]

Simply put, James is not saying we are justified by works. He is saying that our works accompany our already held justification by faith. In other words, if you are not producing works, you also never had saving faith.

As Calvin held, we are saved by faith alone, but the kind of faith that saves will not be alone, will have good works