KEEPING G THE LAW -is not an OPTION!

[Eric B]

It's not "no law anymore". It's just no longer the Law given to Israel under the Old Covenant.

Also, I m,issed:

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Wonder why Christ used the 10, [i.e. instead of the Seven] Paul used the 10 in several of his writings. Anyway if we are born again we become a Jew inwardly.

Christ and Paul used the Ten, because depending on the particular instance, they were speaking to Israel (esp. Christ, before He was crucified, when they were still under the Law). Also, six of the Seven coincide with the Ten, so of course you will see them repeated throughout the NT. The first two of the Ten are combined in one of the Seven. The tenth commandment ("coveting") is also not in there, but in pronciple, it still would hold, especially now that we recognize the "spirit" of the Law and not simply the letter. That commandment basically sums up some of the others anyway; so just as lust equals adultery, coveting would equal stealing.
Meanwhile, the commandment from the Seven not in the Ten is the one against eating live animals (or anything strangled, etc.), but this was in elsewhere in the 613.
These are apart of the universal laws, and what we see part of in Acts 15, and once again, noone is saying there is no more law. It's just that once the Old covenant ended, the Mosaic code ended with it, and the original universal (or Noachian) code (which was always in effect for Gentiles) is what comes back to the surface.

The commandment to honor one's parents is the only one not in the Seven that is repeated for us in the NT. The sabbath is the only one not literally represented in the NT, but its spiritual meaning is given in Heb.4.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Claudia,

I deprecate your slander and libel in your application of this passage from 2 Peter to me.

The full context must be considered, which actually starts in chapter 1...

Lets see what you've called me and every other believer who believes in Grace alone:

1. accused me of being a False Prophet
2. accused me of being a False Teacher
3. accused me of bringing heresies
4. accused me of denying the Lord
5. accused me of speaking evil of the way of truth
6. accused that ways are pernicious
7. you've called me covetous
8. you've accused me of trying to make gain off of converts
9. accused me of walking in the flesh
10. accused me of despising government
11. accused me of being presumptuous
12. accused me of speaking evil against things I don't understand
13. accused me of having eyes full of adultery
14. accused me if beng unable to cease from sin
15. accused me of excersing my heart with covetous practices

It's all one passage...

I could go on...

And, you have applied it to me...

But, you know what...

You can't touch me...

You can't judge me...

Only Jesus can...

Next time you really ought to read the whole context yourself instead of just repeating "proof texts".

And, make sure it is really applicable in the context of the whole council of God...

Grouch?

No, just very sad at someone who is so absolutely decieved by SDA heresies you can't see the forrest for the trees...

Sorry for you... because I came out of a Legalistic Background and I know what it's like to be bound and not even know you're bound...

Mike Sr.

 

[gekko]

here's a quote i found. i can't remember who it's from. so please dont shut this thread down just because i've posted it. if anybody know's who said it. please post it. i wish not to break the laws of the BB.

"the law chases you to calvary - no further"

how's that?
part of the new covenant is this: the Lord has written His law on our hearts. our conscience testifies.

so when we do something to break the law. our conscience is against it. and we know that. but we do it anyways.

i've heard another anecdote like yours bro'bob. i'll try to lay it out here. it is from the "True/False Conversion" audio tape. there is no copyright and is free to distribute - they even encourage to give it out even to sell it for profit to further the ministry:

"Now with those thoughts, by way of reduction, let’s look at Romans 7:4. “Wherefore my brethren you are become
dead to the Law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even Him who is raised from the
dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
In the book Hell’s Best Kept Secret, we give an illustration of a speedster who drove through a town at a dangerous
speed of 120 mph. He was drunk, there was no law against speeding, so the town council gathered and passed a
law stating that 60 mph was the maximum speed, and any transgressors would be fined $100 for every mph over
the speed limit. The speedster comes back. He’s apprehended by the law. He stands in front of the judge, who
was his own father, the town’s only judge. He was proclaimed guilty. He had no money, no words of defense, he
couldn’t raise the money for the $6000 fine, so he was thrust into prison. As he waited in prison, his father arrived,
opened the door and told his son that he had sold all his goods to raise the $6000, he paid the fine himself, and that
he was free to go.
Now, after such a display of love, such sacrifice on behalf of the father, what would the son’s attitude be to the law?
Well, firstly, the law has been satisfied. As soon as the fine was paid, he was free to go. He could smile at the law.
The judge could say, “you’re free.” The law had no demand on him whatsoever because of the sacrifice and
payment of the father. The law was satisfied.
And what’s his reaction to the father? What is his attitude? Well, he’s filled with gratitude at such sacrifice and a
brokenness that his father would do such a thing for him despite his transgression. And now he lives in honor of
the father. He wants to live for the father’s will.
Listen to the attitude of a believer to the Law. Romans 7:4 again, “Wherefore my brethren you also are become
dead to the Law by the body of Christ.” There was the father’s sacrifice. That’s what appeased God’s Law. “Christ
redeemed us from the curse of the Law being made a curse for us.” “You are become dead to the Law by the body
of Christ.” The Law has no demand upon the believer. “There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.” “That you should be married to another, even Him who is raised
from the dead, that you should bring forth fruit unto God.” "

for the full text go here ---- True/False Conversion Transcript

 

[gekko]

although SMM... it is possible for the holy spirit through us to righteously judge according to scripture (2 timothy 3:16-17)

i dont believe we are to judge non-christians
just christians. according to scripture - and only if the holy spirit is leading.

 

[Eric B]

As for the "freedom", that too is not saying "no law anymore", but rather, the motivation for us now is "if you love me, keep my commandments", rather than salvation still hanging in the balance based on how much we do. If salvation was by Law, no one could be saved. It is not mere "trying to go as well as I can" that justifies", nor "I am free from the Law only if I just stop breaking the Law" (which puts the cart before the horse), and all the other stuff spouted by the Sabbatarians, and other legalists.

Some of you posting here have basically changed this "freedom" right back into a rehashed version of the uncertain works based system of the Law, (only with the physical sacrifices removed).

So if a person tries to take this freedom and turn it into license, we remind him "If you love me, keep my commandments", and if that doesn't work, then you leave him to answer to God; give him Church discipline, if applicable, but that's all you can do. Saying "You're lost" [basically, "because you're not doing as good as I am, or trying as hard as I am"] is not going to change it, and if it does, then he is only reacting out of fear, and not out of love (1 John 4:18), and will probably just fall again. the't the mistake the entire conservative Church has made, in thinking all th ehellfire preaching f the past is what led to some supposed "righteousness" they imagine existing in past generations. Instead, it only led to the very rebellion of the present age they complain about!

 

[Claudia_T]

Mike,

wow! I truly have NO idea why you keep saying I am accusing you of anything, where in the wide world are you getting all of this from?

I havent accused you of anything at all..

I really wish you would stop making trouble like this.

 

[Claudia_T]

gosh Im almost afraid to even say anything anymore

 

[gekko]

ok ok... lets not get fiesty here and end up shuttin the thread...

the mod's are probably shakin their heads sayin "here we go again..."

so please. stop bickering like old ladies! (no offense to old ladies...)

 

[Claudia_T]

DISCLAIMER
**Note, this is not a personal attack against Mike


Okay the Bible says that because we are under grace this DOES NOT MEAN we can continue in SIN. What is sin? Transgression of the law.


1Jn:3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Therefore we are NOT FREE now to transgress the law, just because we are under grace.


Rom:6:
1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom:6:15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


Now isnt that just as simple as ABC ?

Notice it says we are dead to sin, and so how can we continue living in sin then?

Therefore can we break the law (and sin) now? OF COURSE NOT!!

The Gospel was never meant to do away with the law.


Watch this:

Revelation 14:
6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God , and the faith of Jesus.


Claudia

[ May 08, 2006, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]

 

[Claudia_T]

I didnt say a [snip] thing to him at all. He takes everything I say as some sort of personal attack against him. I just wish he would knock it off.

[ May 08, 2006, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Pastor_Bob ]

 

[gekko]

calm down. please. isn't that simple as ABC?

 

[Claudia_T]

okay gekko

 

[gekko]

thank you.


and what you said about romans 6 is pretty simple... i dont know why people dont see that...

maybe their conscience is getting to them eh? hehe. that'd be neat.

 

[Claudia_T]

that thought has crossed my mind double hehe.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Originally posted by Claudia_T:
In my opinion, many Christians on this bulletin board (and other places too of course) have this opinion that we are "free" from the law. As if it kept them in some sort of bondage or something that they want to be free from...

But I really dont see how they could reconcile that idea with this verse:

2Pt:2:19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.


Now the rest of it:


18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

In all reality, this is just what they are advocating!

A going back right into the sin we were supposed to have ESCAPED FROM!!

and it just seems to me that they have to take some pretty strange routes around alot of scripture verses to try to justify this kind of thinking!


Claudia

As one of the most vocal proponents of Grace superceeding Law I surely am one of the people on this Board you are addressing...

You then go on and apply 2 Peter to those people on the Board of whom I am one...

Yes, I take being called a servant of corruption a bit personally...

Then I went and checked out the context of the verses you quoted...

And, you don't have a clue that someone might be a bit twearked off about that?

 

[gekko]

ok SMM... you dont have to go causing someone to get all uptight.

so please. leave it. and discuss it privately. not here. because i dont want this thread to be closed in heat. ok?

thank you in advance everybody.
God bless.

 

[Brother Bob]

You are right Eric:

gekko; If you you going to accuse me at least get it right for I never said any of your stuff.

i've heard another anecdote like yours bro'bob. i'll try to lay it out here. it is from the "True/False Conversion" audio tape. there is no copyright and is free to distribute - they even encourage to give it out even to sell it for profit to further the ministry:

Here is Scripture of how it is and exactly what I have said from the beginning to the end. take it or leave it.

1 Timothy, chapter 1

6": From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

"7": Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

"8": But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

"9": Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

"10": For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

(Now this is not just to Israel but to all men. And establishes the Law and shows it is still as good as ever.)

Now, the Law is still sin and will be sin for those who break it until "I saw the dead stand before God and were judged out of the things written in the books."

If you going to argue, then you don't need me. You can do that very well yourselves.

 

[gekko]

im sorry for accusing you... (i thought i had read something about drunken something in one of your earlier posts... that's all)


but what you said brotherbob "Now, the Law is still sin and will be sin for those who break it"

that is not biblical. let me point out why:
Romans 7:7 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law..."

so the law itself is not sin. and will never be sin. according to scripture.

 

[Brother Bob]

its the breaking of the law gekko that is sin!!!

The Law is Holy Just and Good. I have never said the Law itself was sin.

BBob

 

[gekko]

i know that... but the law itself is not sin... that's what i thought you were saying in your last post... so i wanted to clarify it. that's all.

no need to get all up in arms about it now...