King Interview with Billy Graham

[TexasSky]

And speaking of "God giving standards for correction". .. maybe you should practice what you preach Larry and follow them.

Did you call up Graham, in Christian love, and say, "Excuse me, but I read this quote that I don't understand, and that I think is unscriptual. Can you explain to me what you meant?" Or did you just decide to come here and call a man who dedicated all of his life to reaching others for Christ, "Unsaved."?

 

[patrick]

People are reading a little much into the quote I read on this thread. He never said that there is more than one way to salvation. He said he preached the love of Christ. That is pretty refreshing in a day where the church is getting more judgemental it seems by the hour.

We much reach the lost thru love or we will lose them. BG merely said he wasn't the judge. Well, he was right.

Someone talked about the # of converts the church retained. It is probbally right on the national avarage. It is the local church job to close the back door. Let's not blame that on BG. I know people who never attended a crusade who does the same thing.

A relationship with Christ is the grace not by works lest any man should boast.

 

[Kiffen]

What I see is that Dr. Graham basically dodged the question. I have great respect for Billy Graham but stating that Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven instead of stating he can't judge (WHICH IS INCORRECT!) is an attempt to avoid controversy.

The Church has been given the keys (Mt. 16:19, John 20:23) to declare that Salvation is in Christ Alone and that those who refuse Christ will perish in eternal damnation. So yes, the Word of God itself is the judge. It is not merely our opinion. We can say clearly that anyone who repents and embraces Christ Alone is a Christian and can have assurance of Heaven and we can say clearly that anyone who refuses Christ Alone for salvation is Lost and will suffer the Wrath of God unless they Repent.

Perhaps his illness has weakened him. I am not going to bash Dr. Graham nor will I defend his errant statements. I know of many in Church service today who have been won through his ministry BUT let's not defend errant statements either.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Spreading rumors that Billy Graham is not Christian is neither forgiving, loving or accurate.[/qutoe]I didn't spread those rumors. However, if someone is not a Christian, the most loving think you can do is point it out. YOu have no way of knowing whether it is accurate or not. But either way, I didn't say anything about Graham not being a Christian, I don't think.

You say God gave us standards to judge others by. That same God said:

Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Forgive 70 times 7.
And "Judgement is mine."

Maybe you need to pay a little more attention to the commandments that God called the greatest two and little less attention to trying to tear down other Christians.

I am not sure what that quote about forgiveness has to do with this. First, Graham didn't sin against me. He sinned against God. Second, Graham has never asked for forgiveness. Third, I am not tearing down another Christian. God has given us the responsibility to be discerning about teachers. It clearly says that when a brother does not follow the word, we are to separate from him. That is what this is about.

There is absolutely ~nothing~ unbiblical about Billy Graham saying he doesn't want to sit on national TV and talk hate about other people.

It is unbiblical when you suggest that there is another way to heaven besides Christ, and Graham has said that for more than 30 years. He has joined hands to "preach teh gospel" with people who do not believe the gospel. The fact that he is a man of great integrity does not offset his error in theology and preaching.

There is a LOT unbiblical about you calling a man "unChristian" for refusing to participate in a hate-fest.[/qutoe]I did no such thing, and you know that. Your comments about me are far more hateful than anything I said. They are nothing but personal attacks. You didn't deal with the substance. I never addressed Graham personally. I dealt with the substance of his comments that are documented. I didn't call him unChristian. I have no way of knowing that, and neither do you.

But it is wrong, even sinful, to suggest that a Buddhist or Muslim or Jew might get to heaven without personal faith in Jesus Christ. It is a compromise of the gospel. No believer in Christ should tolerate the commnets of Graham on that issue.

And speaking of "God giving standards for correction". .. maybe you should practice what you preach Larry and follow them.

I try.

Did you call up Graham, in Christian love, and say, "Excuse me, but I read this quote that I don't understand, and that I think is unscriptual. Can you explain to me what you meant?" Or did you just decide to come here and call a man who dedicated all of his life to reaching others for Christ, "Unsaved."?

Graham's comments were public and made over more than thirty years. Graham has been confronted for more than 50 years about his disobedience to Scripture. There is no biblical command that I personally go since Graham did not personally sin against me. He went on the public record with these statements. Had he said them in my church, I would have confronted him about it. Were he a friend of mine, I would call him up. But when statements are public and repeated, they deserve public confrontation.

There is no reason to call and say that I don't understand his quote. I do understand it, and everyone who can read English can understand it. It is the same thing Graham has said for more than 30 years. This isn't new folks. The fact that some don't know about it doesn't change it.

And lastly, to my knowledge, I still have not said he was unsaved. I don't know that. Please don't accuse me of saying that.

Folks, we need to get away from the personality cult and the attraction of big numbers and nice people and look at the substance. God gave us commands to reject the doctrine and practice of men like Graham. We should not feel free to disobey God because Graham did some good things, or because Graham did some things that looked good. As I have said before, I pray that I get to the end of my life with the testimony of personal integrity that Graham has. But that does not excuse his disobedience to the clear commands of Scripture.

 

[LarryN]

Why not let Billy Graham & the BGEA speak for themselves in regards to what they believe?

From the Billy Graham Evamgelistic Association website:


http://www.bgea.org/SpiritualHelp_Article_Index.asp?MajorTopicID=1&MinorTopicID=15

Look for Franklin Graham's clip "Jesus is the only way".


http://www.bgea.org/SpiritualHelp_Article_Index.asp?MajorTopicID=7&MinorTopicID=63

Look for the article "Can't all religions lead us to God?"


http://www.bgea.org/DMag_SpiritualHelp_Article.asp?ArticleID=421

This article is entitled "The Good News of Salvation".

 

[Karen]

You state things clearly, Pastor Larry. And I don't think BG has always spoken as clearly as he should or could, and he has often been misquoted.
However, I do not believe that he preaches an incorrect version of the Gospel.
I have listened to many of his sermons, read his newspaper column, and read many of his books.
In my opinion, he preaches the necessity of repentance and putting your trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross.

Karen

 

[massdak]

i believe some are confusing others with a statement that i made regarding billy graham possibly being lost, i was the only one making that suggestion and i based it on this verse>>>

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

also i said he possibly was lost and i would not know for sure, but based on my observation he is not abiding in the doctrine of Christ.

 

[Karen]

Thanks, LarryN,
Some pretty clear statements there.

Karen

 

[patrick]

Larry,

re-read the quote made by BG. He never said that there is more than on way to heaven. He merely said, he preaches love and mercy. Many could learn alot from him. Folk want to and will read what they want to in his comments.

 

[Thankful]

No one will ever change my mind about Billy Graham. I believe he is one of the greatest men who has ever lived. He has served his God and will continue to serve His God. In my opinion, he has always preached the Gospel and encouraged people to go to their local church.

Thank you, Charles, Karen, LarryN, Texas Sky,Patrick, and others for standing for this Great Man.

One must remember that Billy Graham is human and humans are not perfect.

It appears to me that many are misinterpreting what BG says, just as many misinterpret the Bible.

Over the years,BG has learned through God, that LOVE is the way to reach people to show them that Jesus is the ONLY WAY.

 

[Pastor Larry]

re-read the quote made by BG. He never said that there is more than on way to heaven. He merely said, he preaches love and mercy. Many could learn alot from him. Folk want to and will read what they want to in his comments.

Go back and read what I said. My statements are not based on this lone example, but on the cumulative of more than 30 years of statements and practice. We can all be unclear in one statement taken out of context. But over the years, repeated affirmations of a position, challenges to think about it, followed by repeated affirmations, lead me to believe that Graham knows exactly what he is saying.

No one will ever change my mind about Billy Graham.

I hope you will take teh commands of Scripture regarding discernment about teachers and teaching more seriously. To refuse to change your mind in the face of clear examples is not necessarily a mark of virtue. Graham has, at the very least, confused the gospel. He has more likely compromised the gospel. With 50 years of history, this is abundantly made clear.

I think part of the appeal of Graham is an apparent humility coupled with great personal integrity and a great personal warmth. What is there not to like? Only his practice of inclusivism in rejection of the biblical commands about it. It is sad to me to see someone with the potential that Graham had to come to the end of his life having done what he did with it. I will never preach to as many nor have the influence that Graham has had. But the much good that he has done does not excuse him, just as Peter was not excused for his own compromise of hte gospel in Gal 2. We would do well to take a lesson from Paul and Peter. Do not be afraid to open your mouth when someone genuinely compromises the gospel. Paul "withstood Peter to the face" in a public confrontation, not because of his words, but because of his actions that compromised the gospel. May God give us the courage to do no less, even when it is someone as winsome as Billy Graham.

I do think Franklin is much better, at this point, than Billy is. He has unashamedly taken a public stand for the exclusivism of Jesus Christ, comments which Billy distance himself from. I hope Franklin takes a rightward turn with the BGEA in the years to come.

 

[Andy T.]

I think TexasSky should forgive Pastor Larry in the same manner that she expects Pastor Larry to forgive Billy Graham.

Remember, the Bible says:

Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Forgive 70 times 7.
And "Judgement is mine."

In fact, the next time someone points out a sin of mine, I can throw this little mantra back at them:

Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Forgive 70 times 7.
And "Judgement is mine."

So if this post sounds a little harsh or cynical, then you need to read your Bible:

Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Forgive 70 times 7.
And "Judgement is mine."

Remember, the next time you get caught in a sin, just spout this off:

Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Forgive 70 times 7.
And "Judgement is mine."

Unless, of course, you happen to be judging a "Pharisee" and then all bets are off and you can deride and judge all the day long, even attributing to them things they didn't even say.

Beautiful.

 

[patrick]

Billy reaches people for Christ. I have never heard him give any other invatation. Billy doesn't close doors and spew venom at other religions. He preaches the love and of Christ Jesus.

We bash other beliefs and we lose the chance we have to impact them with the gospel. Gandi stated he would have become a Christian if he had ever met one. We don't show the love of Christ by bashing other beliefs. We show only our arrogance,

 

[TexasSky]

Andy,

I do agree with you, and I do forgive Pastor Larry.

 

[TexasSky]

Larry,

Again, I have over 47 years of listening to Graham, and I've never once heard the statements you attribute to him.

All I have ever heard, in person, in reading his works, in television or radio interviews is 100% pure gospel of Jesus Christ.

To sit back and say the man doesn't preach the word of God contradicts everything I've seen with my eyes and heard with my own ears. I refuse to believe slander from third parties.

 

[TexasSky]

Larry,

One other thing.

I used to be in the newspaper business. There were many times when I saw editors totally alter the meaning of a quote by bad editing. Some intentional and some accidental.

"Muslims could go to heaven," may have started out as, "Muslims, could go to heaven, if they accept Christ as Lord and Savior.'

"It is not my place to judge other men of God," may have started out as, "It is not my place to judge other men of God, but the bible speaks out against sexual sin, and if sexual sin took place, the people involved should seek forgiveness."

You can make "Thou shalt not kill," into "Thou shalt kill," if the wrong editor gets hold of it.

Larry King is a man known to try to undermine Christians. Billy Graham fights "jealousy" on many levels.

He isn't perfect - however - about 99% of the evangelical movement in the world uses Graham ministry training, outreach material or methods.

When we get to heaven, I'm sure we'll be amazed how many people who meet us there say, "I heard this guy named Graham preaching."

If you want to say, "I disagree with the statement made that said......" that's fine. Don't attack the man though.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I do forgive Pastor Larry.

For what? I didn't do anything wrong. I wasn't the one that was judgmental without reason. I wasn't the one who distorted other people's words.

Again, I have over 47 years of listening to Graham, and I've never once heard the statements you attribute to him.

I have given you the resources where to find them. This is not secret.

To sit back and say the man doesn't preach the word of God contradicts everything I've seen with my eyes and heard with my own ears. I refuse to believe slander from third parties.

I too refuse to believe slander and refuse to deal in it. I did neither. Much of his message is the word of God. It is not that part that is the problem. It is the rest of it.

Don't attack the man though.

I didn't. I pointed out where he has made errors in both doctrine and practice. That is not an attack. I have no personal ill will towards Graham in the least. I admire his passion and personal integrity through the years. But we cannot stand by while the cardinal doctrines of Christianity are compromised, both in word and deed. These quotes weren't edited. There are too many of them over too many years. Instead of defending this stuff, just say he was wrong. People that were truly saved under his preaching are still saved. There is nothing wrong with pointing out when someone is in error. We should not shy away from it. We must take a stand for the truth and for righteousness out of love for God and love for our fellow man. We dare not do less.

 

[Pastor Larry]

We bash other beliefs-

I am not in favor of bashing other beliefs. I am currently doing a Bible study series on world religions, pointing out the differences. What I have done here is not bash anyone's beliefs. We must, however, stand up for the truth. When it is compromised, we dare not stay silent. Why is that so hard for some? Do you really think you can love God while supporting His enemies?

 

[TexasSky]

Larry,

How did anything you say in the Graham thread further the cause of Christ?

 

[gb93433]

Usually those rocking the boat are not those rowing it. In his autobiography, Just As I Am, Billy Graham accused the fundamentalists of lying and I have yet heard any who have publically disputed that and name Graham as a liar. Graham wrote that quite a number of their accusations are pure fabrications. Who's doing the lying?

They need to remember God when it speaks of them in Mt. 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'