King Interview with Billy Graham

Great response, Marcia!

 

I lived in a town for 14 years where there was a church that was a basher and I never once met a person who came to Christ through that church. Quite a number of non-Christians knew about their bashing exercises simply because the word got around over the years. To this very day they are still bashing and enjoying a nice building out in the country with just a handful of bashers. They have spent over 30 years trying to "straighten" out the Christians while they are not doing evangelism. The Christians and non-Christians in the community see their fruit.

We do not need to spend our energy bashing others but we must tell the truth.

 

God bless you GB.
You are like a breath of air straight from heaven.

 

I did a little research this morning. I've highlighted a few things, and I skipped things that were more like, "Where have you traveled." I tell you where I skip.
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Interview With Billy Graham - Larry King

Aired June 16, 2005 - 21:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILLY GRAHAM, EVANGELIST: Jesus Christ the son of God has answer to every problem that you face.

Jesus said, I am the truth.

God loves you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)
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There is a lot of chatter about where Graham would like to go, what countries he has been to, then this comes up.
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KING: I don't want to be macabre. Nobody lives forever. We've talked about death a lot when you have been with us. This might be your last interview.

GRAHAM: It could be. I'm looking forward to that. I mean, I look forward to this terrifically, but I am looking forward to heaven even more.

KING: You're looking forward to dying?

GRAHAM: Yes.

KING: In other words, if you died tonight, this would be a happy evening?

GRAHAM: But I heard you say that you didn't want to be there.

KING: An old Woody Allen joke. Not afraid of death, just don't want to be there.

GRAHAM: But you're right, if I died right now, I would be very happy.

KING: Why?

GRAHAM: Because I know what's ahead. It's a paradise that we are going to go into, because to be in the presence of God itself will be a paradise. And I have total, total certainty of that from scripture. And I believe the Bible. I believe that I have received Jesus Christ into my heart. I believe that he has covered all of my sins.

And I had an experience where I thought I was dying. I was at the Mayo Clinic about four years ago and having -- I have had three brain operations, and that is my biggest problem now is hydrocephalus, and they were trying to get stents into my brain, and one night I thought, this was it, and during the night I prayed and told the Lord that, please receive me into his presence. And all of a sudden, all of my sins came before me. Everything I had ever done wrong that I had forgotten about years ago came into my mind. And I prayed, Lord, forgive me, may the blood of Jesus Christ cleanse me from all of my sins.

And I had the greatest peace come over me, and that peace has not left me since. And I am very certain that the Lord was ready to receive me at that time -- not because of my good works or because of all the things I have tried to do, but because the Lord had forgiven me.

KING: And do you think he loves the people of 9/11, the people in the planes on 9/11 as much as he loves you?

GRAHAM: Yeah, he does. He does. I can't explain 9/11, except the evil of man. I think that there is a force in the world, a force of evil. There are two great forces, God's force of good and the devil's force of evil, and I believe Satan is alive and he is working, and he is working harder than ever, and we have many mysteries that we don't understand.

KING: Does God love him?

GRAHAM: Does God what?

KING: Satan. Does he love Satan?

GRAHAM: Well, he created him as Lucifer. In the 22nd of Ezekiel, it tells us about it, and he must love him, but the end of Satan is hell. Hell was created for the devil and his angels, or his demons, not for men.

KING: Don't you ever, ever doubt it?

GRAHAM: No. No. I used to. But not since that experience I had that I just told you about. I have no doubts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAHAM: First of all, you have to meet God with light! I do not believe that any man, that any man can solve the problems of life without Jesus Christ. There are tremendous marital problems, there are physical problems, there are financial problems, there are problems of sin and habit that cannot be solved outside the person of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(END VIDEO CLIP)
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There is some talk about Graham and if he holds anger, then this comes up.....
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KING: Are you forgiving of the infirmities of other people?

GRAHAM: Absolutely. I am. I mean, I...

KING: Isn't that hard?

GRAHAM: ... try to forgive. I never hold a grudge. In fact, many people say that I never get angry. I don't think I get angry. But maybe I do sometimes, but I keep it. I don't explode to anybody.

KING: Do you feel the same about other faiths?

GRAHAM: Absolutely.

KING: Do you feel the same about Judaism, Mormonism?

GRAHAM: Absolutely.

KING: Buddhism?

GRAHAM: I love them all, and welcome them all, and love to be with them, and friends with all of them. For example, I just talked to a man in New York City, he was a Mormon.

KING: My father-in-law.

GRAHAM: Your father-in-law. And I've loved the Mormons for years, and yet there is a big divide between the Mormons and some of the other groups. But I have great friends among the Mormons. And the same among the Catholics. Of course, I loved Pope John Paul II and watched the whole process of his suffering, his dying and the tremendous -- my daughter went to represent me ...

KING: I know. You were on with us the night he died.

GRAHAM: That's right. Thank you.

KING: But what about those faiths -- the Mormons and the others that you mentioned -- believe in Christ. They believe they will meet Christ. What about those like the Jews, the Muslims, who don't believe they ...

GRAHAM: That's in God's hands. I can't be the judge.

KING: You don't judge them?

GRAHAM: No.

KING: How do you feel...

(CROSSTALK)

GRAHAM: ... going to hell and all that.

KING: How do you feel when you see a lot of these strong Christian leaders go on television and say, you are condemned, you will live in hell if you do not accept Jesus Christ, and they are forceful and judgmental?

GRAHAM: Well, they have a right to say that, and they are true to a certain extent, but I don't -- that's not my calling. My calling is to preach the love of God and the forgiveness of God and the fact that he does forgive us. That's what the cross is all about, what the resurrection is all about, that's the gospel. And you can get off on all kinds of different side trends, and in my earlier ministry, I did the same, but as I got older, I guess I became more mellow and more forgiving and more loving. And the Jerry Falwells and people like that, I love them, I thank God for their ministry, he has a great university and two or three of my grandchildren have gone there, they have had a tremendous change in their lives for being there, and some of the other people are the same way, but at the other end of the extreme.
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That's the "false" teaching of Graham that you people wanted to correct.

The man spent a great deal of time saying Christ is the only answer to any problem.

The man spent a great deal of time talking about the amazing love and forgiveness of Christ.

The man spent a great deal of time talking about coming to the Lord in confession - and all some of you could do was zero in on "It isn't my place to judge."

 

I agree. The other conclusion I get from "It's in God's hands; it's not for me to judge" is that the person is stating that they don't know the answer. It's as if they shrug their shoulders saying, "I don't know - it's up to God." Of course, that is what God's Word is for - to tell us about these matters. And it is clear from God's Word that there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ. So it is rather dishonest or cowardly to give such an answer.

And believe me, I've been guilty of this very thing before (dishonesty/cowardice in witnessing). And I'm glad other Christians didn't just pat me on the back and say, "Well, you've done so much good in the name of Christ, we understand you didn't mean that, so just forget it" No, I was properly rebuked and then repented from my sin.

 

Jesus is the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through him. And if any Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists come to the Father, it will be through Jesus and his grace and mercy. It is very possible that no Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists will come to the Father through Christ. If I were a betting man, that is how I would wager. But in the end it is God's judgement not ours that matters.

And if we fulfill Christ's call to bring the Good News to Muslims, Hindus and Buddhist, then we don't have to say, "I don't know" anymore for that individual.

 

Well said both Marcia and Andy T. One could come with the impression from Billy Graham's statements that Jesus is My Savior BUT I am not the judge on those who reject what I believe.

We do however have the authority to judge in eternal matters based upon the authority of what God's word says. He is in error in saying that.

I think Billy Graham has been given a pass on this that others would not get a pass on. Graham never once said Jesus is the ONLY Way to Heaven in the interview. That is what I find disturbing.

 

One thing for sure, if a Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist comes to Christ, he will not remain a Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist.

 

First - Billy had already given the answer earlier when he spoke about Christ.

Second - Immediately after Billy is asked his opinion about other religions the tape cuts to "cross chatter which can't be made out," and comes back on the words "to hell" or "in hell."

We don't know that what he said that was lost on the tape.

He does, though, state clearly that Christ is the answer to everything, that Christ is the savior, and that salvation requires personal committment to Christ, and he states that his calling to love and forgiveness.

On another thread I mentioned thinking back to chidhood events.

When I was a child, before I came to Christ, there was a girl at my school who was raised to be very outspoken in her beliefs. I spent recess with Melody, Donny and Julian. The other girl, whose name I don't remember would follow us around the playground saying:

"God said girls shouldn't cut their hair! You're going to hell!"
"Girls and boys shouldn't play together! You're going to hell for that!"
"God said that girls shouldn't wear shorts! You're going to hell!"

Day in and day out.
OVER and over and over.

Until one day, we all turned around and told her, "If heaven is full of people like you, I'd rather be in hell."

Now - that same year - I heard a bunch of church women gossiping about my family, spreading lies, mocking my home-made clothing. I announced to a minister of God that "all that talk about Christ is just a lie. They make fun of my Daddy, and my clothes, and about how God is going to send people to hell, and they think everyone is bad. They don't love anybody. Its all a lie."

Many years later, after I knew Christ-a man I loved came to me and said, "Tell me about your God. All I hear from this guy at work is how much God hates everyone and how everyone is going to hell. Your God sounds like a better deal."

About two years after that, a woman I worked with, a Mormon, came to me and said, "Tell me about your God." (This was before Mormons identified themselves as Christians.) "I've been raised in the Mormon church my entire life, and all I ever see from Christians is hate, but you and your sister, and these Christian friends of yours are different. I've never seen the kind of peace I see. I want that."

What she referred to was that when my mother died of cancer, I didn't have an urge to curse God, and people I'd tried to show Christian love to who had been cast out by society, tried to return that love by taking up collections to help my sister and I. In doing so, they tipped off a church crowd of customers about why I was gone. That Church Crowd stepped into help me, and to help the people I used to help, while I was away.

What reached all of those people was the love of God. Had I told the Mormon, "You're going to hell, you have the wrong faith," she never would have listened to a word about Christ. By showing love first, she ASKED about Christ.

If Dr. Graham had said (and we don't know he didn't since the tape lost some of his speech), there is only way to salvation, he might have emphasized a seed he'd already planted early in his discussion. However, if you wanted him to say, "Well, all those people are going to hell," stop and think about how YOU would have reacted had you BEEN one of those other religions? Would you have listened any further to the message of Christ?

Remember the old song? "They will know we are Christians by our love?"

Christians SHOULD be different from the world. We should have so much of Christ in us that people WANT to know about HIM because of us.

We can't do that with sledgehammers.

 

Never thought I would live long enough to hear someone accuse Billy Graham of being too cowardly to stand up for Christ.

That coward shared the gospel of Christ to 210 million people in the 15 different nations of the world.

I wish I had 1/2 that much courage.

He will preach in New York on June 24 to June 26, and is already asking that we pray that the name of Christ will be lifted up, and that the lost will come to Christ.

The man is 86 years old, and suffers from many terrible disesases, and yet, he is using his last energy to witness to 70,000 people in one of the most sin-filled cities in the world, and he's labled cowardly.

 

One thing for sure, if a Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist comes to Christ, he will not remain a Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not disagreeing with you, but I have a few questions that may shed light to BG's position on this.

1) You said, "One thing for sure". Why are you so certain of this?
2) What is your scriptural support for the certainty of this statement?

 

Of course, TexasSky, that is what we are promoting - to be as mean and hateful as all those people from your past experiences.

(And as an aside, from all your numerous posts on this board, a reocurring theme of yours is how awful people have been in your life experiences. You really come off as pretty miserable to be carrying such weight around with all those mean, nasty, sinful people in your life. It's ironic that for all the times you cry "judge not" to everyone else on this board, just about every post of yours is a scathing, condescending, judgmental attack on all types of "Pharisees" and hate-mongers.)

 

Andy,

You stated: "And believe me, I've been guilty of this very thing before (dishonesty/cowardice in witnessing)."

Now, if you were NOT calling Dr. Graham "dishonest and cowardly" about Christ, what DID you mean?

Andy - I wish that "you're evil and going to hell," really WAS a thing of the past. Give me a few moments and I'll show you something.

 

How about this - John 1:1-5

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

It's really pretty simple. Muslims/Hindus/Buddhists all deny the above about Christ, in one manner or another. So if they truly believe on Him, then that means they are no longer M/H/B, and they will subsequently reject their prior religion.

 

The only folks Jesus was condemning and judgemental to were the religious conservatives of his day. Although he did whack his disciples upside the head many times for not "getting it".

 

There is another possibility - he was ignorant in making such a statement. But I doubt that is the case with Dr. Graham - he knows what he is talking about. Calling a certain act or statement cowardly or dishonest is not the same as calling the person cowardly or dishonest. I do think his statement was either cowardly, dishonest or both. That doesn't mean I think that he is generally a cowardly or dishonest man. Not at all. We can sit here and laud all the great things he's done, but that still doesn't change the statement he made. Why is that so shocking to some people? Have we put him up on such a pedestal that he is absolutely above reproach?

Like I said, I've erred in a similar manner. I'm glad when I do sin, that my Christian friends/family don't say, "Well, he's done so much good, we'll let this one slip by." That's not the very "loving" thing to do.

 

Is there no middle ground here? There is a way to communicate the truth of hell without coming across as mean and nasty as you've put it. You keep implying that's what we are advocating, and doing so is pretty mean and judgmental on your part, TexasSky.

 

He also condemned the Sadducees - the religious liberals of His time (they denied the resurrection). But that's not the point. Jesus, through the Word of God penned by other men, speaks against ALL sin, in whatever form it comes in and by whomever performs it. Again, there is a difference between pointing out error without being judgmental towards the individual. The goal in pointing out sin should always be restoration. When a judgmental spirit is involved, retribution becomes the motive.