Kingdom Exclusion

[StraightAndNarrow]

The "conditional salvation" as you call it, you will find in relation to the salvation of the soul or life for the age. It's all about works.

Spiritual salvation (which, I guess you could call "unconditional salvation") is based on the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross, and is free for anyone who accepts it. There are no works on our part that are involved. It's irrevocable, unless the Bible lies. If the Bible lies, then it needs to be tossed in the nearest trash can.

What does the term "born again" mean to you? Jesus clearly said:

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


It signifies a complete change in which a person's master becomes Christ rather than the world. I don't accept salvation by works. Salvation is by grace and faith. However, a saved person must demonstrate this born again lifestyle and produce fruit.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Go back a couple of verses, and you will see: "Unless a man be born from above, he cannot see the Kingdom of God". This is talking about being saved in John 3:3.

John 3:5 adds something to that: "Unless a man be born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God." Works are involved.

John 3:5 is talking about entering the Kingdom, not simply being saved.

Here are a couple of sermons I did on seeing and entering the Kingdom a couple of years ago. You can read it online, download the pdf, or listen to the mp3:

See the Kingdom

Enter the Kingdom

 

[J. Jump]

I just don't believe that there's any Biblical support for that.

But as I have said before just because you don't believe it doesn't make it wrong. There is plenty of Biblical support for it. It's overwhelming.

 

[FERRON BRIMSTONE]

This sermon was posted on another thread by Su Wei. But I thought it might be of interest here.

www.sermonaudio.com listen to Paul Washer

 

[Linda64]

Who Will Not Inherit the Kingdom?

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God" (1 Cor. 6:9-11).[FONT=CG Times,Times New Roman]
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"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,iIdolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (Gal. 5:19-21).[FONT=CG Times,Times New Roman]
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"For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God" (Eph. 5:5)

Observations:
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Zane Hodges says, “There is no difficulty at all in speaking of people who live in the Kingdom of God but who do not inherit that Kingdom…the heirs of the Kingdom, then, are its owners, not merely its residents or citizens.” [Zane C. Hodges, Grace in Eclipse (Dallas: Redencion Viva, 1985), p. 71. ] Joseph Dillow writes: “All Christians will enter the kingdom, but not all will rule there, i.e., inherit it….They will, having been justified, be in the kingdom; however, they will not inherit it….There is a difference between being a resident of the kingdom and inheriting it.” [Joseph C. Dillow, The Reign of the Servant Kings (Miami Springs, Florida: Schoettle Publishing Co., 1992), pages 62, 64, 78.] Dillow adds, “they will be in the kingdom but not at the wedding feast.” [Ibid., p. 389.] Faust teaches that these wicked saved people are totally excluded from the kingdom and that they will taste of the second death and then be punished in the fires of Hades for a thousand years.[/FONT]
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“What Saith the Scriptures?”[/FONT][FONT=CG Times,Times New Roman]

[FONT=Times New Roman,serif]Hodges and Dillow divide saved people into two distinct categories—-the spiritual and the carnal, the overcomers (Rev. 2-3) and the non-overcomers, the “partakers” (Heb. 3:14) and the non-partakers. However, in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Paul makes it clear that the group of immoral people he is referring to is not the carnal Corinthians. In verse 11 he says, “and such WERE some of you.” In chapter 3, verse 3, Paul said to the Corinthians: “For ye ARE yet CARNAL.” Paul acknowledged that they were carnal and yet he did not include them with the unrighteous ones described in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Such a description only fit them when they were unsaved. That is what they WERE. If the Hodges/Dillow view were correct, then Paul should have said in 1 Corinthians 6:9, “and such ARE some of you.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif] When Paul speaks of the “unrighteous” (unjust) in 1 Corinthians 6:9 he is not speaking of some carnal, unworthy, unpersevering members of the Body and Bride of Christ. No, Paul uses the term “unrighteous” (unjust) as a description of unsaved, unregenerate, lost people. This term “unjust” is clearly defined for us in the context of this chapter. In verse 1 Paul says, “Dare any of you having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?” (1 Cor. 6:1). Paul clearly distinguishes two groups: 1) The unjust (the unsaved) and 2) the saints (the saved). These same two groups are seen in verses 9-11. In verse 9-10 we have the unrighteous (unjust) which are the unsaved. They will not inherit the kingdom. In verse 11 we have those who are justified and sanctified. These are the saints (the saved) who will inherit the kingdom. There is no such thing as a saint or a saved person who will not inherit the kingdom, contrary to the teachings of Hodges and Dillow.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif] We need to carefully follow Paul’s argument in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. What is it that makes a person RIGHTEOUS and able to inherit the kingdom? Is it because the saved person has persevered in the faith and walked closely with the Lord and thus has earned his share in the kingdom, as Hodges and Dillow suggest? No! In verse 11, Paul says that the reason the Corinthians are righteous and thus fit to inherit the kingdom is because they have been JUSTIFIED! Even carnal Corinthians will inherit the kingdom because they are seen as perfectly righteous IN CHRIST!

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/GES04.htm
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[James_Newman]

Our friends at Middletown neglect the fact that a man may be washed and yet still be in need of a washing.

John 13:8-10
8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Jesus told Peter that we was already washed, and only had need of his feet to be washed. But if he did not allow Jesus to wash his feet, he had no part with him. The fact that some of the Corinthians were walking in the spirit (such were some of you) doesn't mean that those who were walking carnaly were unsaved. They were still washed in the blood, but they had dirty feet.

 

[av1611jim]

I don'treally know if this has been addressed here or not, but it occurs to me that the idea that saved but disobedient Christians may 'enter' the Kingdom but not 'inherit' it, borders on lunacy.

Exactly what was it that Paul was so fearful of?
I offer for your consideration, (in many translations for you who do not accept the KJV.):
1Co 9:24 KJV
¶ Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1Co 9:24 (Young's Literal Translation)
¶ have ye not known that those running in a race--all indeed run, but one doth receive the prize? so run ye, that ye may obtain;
1Co 9:25
and every one who is striving, is in all things temperate; these, indeed, then, that a corruptible crown they may receive, but we an incorruptible;
1Co 9:26
I, therefore, thus run, not as uncertainly, thus I fight, as not beating air;
1Co 9:27
but I chastise my body, and bring it into servitude, lest by any means, having preached to others--I myself may become disapproved.

1Co 9:24 (ASV)
¶ Know ye not that they that run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? Even so run; that ye may attain.
1Co 9:25
And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things. Now they do it to receive a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26
I therefore so run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air:
1Co 9:27
but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.

1Co 9:24 (KJ2000)
¶ Know you not that they who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? So run, that you may obtain.
1Co 9:25
And every man that strives for self control is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26
I therefore so run, not with uncertainty; so fight I, not as one that beats the air:
1Co 9:27
But I roughly treat my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.

1Co 9:24 (World English Bible)
¶ Don't you know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run like that, that you may win.
1Co 9:25
Every man who strives in the games exercises self-control in all things. Now they do it to receive a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26
I therefore run like that, as not uncertainly. I fight like that, as not beating the air,
1Co 9:27
but I beat my body and bring it into submission, lest by any means, after I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.


It should be clear enough to the honest observer that in this passage Paul is teaching holiness of life to "obtain, attain, win" a crown or he would be a "castaway, disapproved, rejected, disqualified."

You will also notice that it is NOT his works which he is fearful of being rejected, etc, but it is he HIMSELF!!!

In a parrallel passage Paul warns BELIEVERS of the coming judgment by Christ. Rom 14:10 and 2 Cor 5:10-11.

Now, folks, soothe not your consciences and face the awful truth that we must ALL be judged.

What is the TERROR of the Lord in 2 Cor 5:11 and why would be REJECTED in 1 Cor 9:27?

Think about it. Judgment does NOT stop with this life only. For if it did then a believer could live his whole life as he pleases willy-nilly with NO FEAR of his Lord and then when he dies he could just step into heaven UNSANCTIFIED for he would have not lived a sanctified life!!!

Or as some would have it....there is NO MOTIVATION to live otherwise for ALL the warnings in Scripture are to the lost and NOT to Christians.

Use you head people for something other than a sponge to soak in this Laodicean age milque-toast theology which says a believer has no reason to fear his Lord and God.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

I believe that the normal definition of the phrases "The Kingdom", "The kingdom of his dear Son", "The Kingdom of God", and "The Kingdom of Heaven" is Christ's future millennial Earthly Kingdom.

(There are a couple of exceptions where they are used in a more universal sense to mean everything under God's control, but normally the KOG/KOH was the literal messianic Kingdom expected by the Jews.)

How might a Christian miss the Kingdom?

1) By not suffering for Christ:Rom 8:16,17, 2 Thess 1:5, 2Tim 2:12

2) By committing and continuing certain gross sins.1 Cor 6:7-10, Gal 5:16-21, Eph 5:1-7, )

3) By failing to overcoming self and sin: Rev 2:11, Rev 3:5, 3:11-12, 3:21, 2Pet2:20-22,

4)By being unmerciful:Matt 5:7, Matt 6:14-15, Matt 18:33-35, Jas 2:13

5) By not continuing in the faith: Acts 14:22, John 8:31,32, John 15:4-6, Matt 10:38, Luke 22:28,29, 2 Peter 1:11.

That ought to keep you busy for a while. Just a challenge though: Read these verses and consider the possibility (that when they tell a believer to be good because the unrighteous won't inherit the Kingdom) that the verses mean exactly what they say.

Lacy

All of those things you quote actually are reasons why a false Christian will be among the goats and condemned to Hell on the Judgement day. There is no such thing as a carnal Christian. Christians are born again and no longer are enchained to sin but follow Christ as the Master of their lives.

 

[FERRON BRIMSTONE]

Our friends at Middletown neglect the fact that a man may be washed and yet still be in need of a washing.

John 13:8-10
8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Jesus told Peter that we was already washed, and only had need of his feet to be washed. But if he did not allow Jesus to wash his feet, he had no part with him. The fact that some of the Corinthians were walking in the spirit (such were some of you) doesn't mean that those who were walking carnaly were unsaved. They were still washed in the blood, but they had dirty feet.

He also would have no part with him.

 

[FERRON BRIMSTONE]

Heresy is what I had in mind, but lunacy works.:thumbs:

 

[Lacy Evans]

Heresy is what I had in mind, but lunacy works.:thumbs:

I wondered when somebody would start slinging about the "H" word. It usually starts when they run out of reasonable arguments.

It's funny. Folks disagree with Methodists', Nazarene's, AOG's, etc. view on eternal security (that it can be lost forever and that a formerly-saved person will fry for all eternity.) but I seldom hear them call it heresy.

What I believe is much more mild than that.

1) The doctrine that salvation can be lost motivates no one because usually it is so hard to lose, or else the person believing it is quite sure that he hasn't lost his!

2) The doctrine that once you are saved you can act like the devil and still be saved inspires no holiness (unless it is tempered with responsibility/Kingdom teaching) because folks act like the devil.

3) The doctrine that salvation inevitably results in holiness (almost always in unspecified amount and quality) inspires no one to holiness because only the proud "know for sure" if they are saved at all, and the humble man never gains the assurance necessary to inspire courage for tapping into the power of the Holy Ghost.

4) You have to have works to be saved? see #3, same thing.

5) Free Grace Eternal Security tempered with eminent reward and eminent (possibly severe) chastening will and does inspire holiness.

KJV Romans 11:18-22
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[FERRON BRIMSTONE]

I believe in eternal security. Where the Heresy comes in is teaching people that they are saved even though they show no evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If Christ aint Lord, then the devil is.

That 1000 year thing cannot be supported by Scripture either.

Your theology has not been developed by Scripture, but by a manmade method of interpretation.

 

[webdog]

There is no such thing as a carnal Christian. Christians are born again and no longer are enchained to sin but follow Christ as the Master of their lives.

What about Lot? Your argument holds no water. You need to back it up with Scripture.

I bet you know a handful of "carnal" christians in your own church...and don't even realize it.

 

[av1611jim]

Carnal Christians;
Aparently SOMEBODY on this thread needs to read their Bible. Paul was speaking to THE BRETHREN not the unsaved.

1Co 3:1
¶ And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

 

[James_Newman]

I guess that would answer this question.

1 Corinthians 6:7
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

If there were no such thing as a carnal Christian, why do you suppose the Bible would devote so much space to warning Christians not to walk carnally?

Ephesians 5:3-8
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

 

[Linda64]

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. (Galatians 6:1)

3900. paraptoma

paraptoma par-ap'-to-mah

from 3895; a side-slip (lapse or deviation), i.e. (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression:--fall, fault, offence, sin,

Salvation is NOT a license to sin. To remain in sin and bear NO fruit is to be unsaved--just making a mere "profession" of faith is NOT salvation. Carnal Christians are those who remain babes and don't grow spiritually. That is why those who are spiritual are to restore them.

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. (Ephesians 5:11)

This verse is speaking about the unsaved.

 

[James_Newman]

I guess it comes down to a fundamental difference in understanding salvation. I believe that I am saved by the work Christ did on the cross, and apparently you believe you are saved by not sinning.

 

[webdog]

I guess it comes down to a fundamental difference in understanding salvation. I believe that I am saved by the work Christ did on the cross, and apparently you believe you are saved by not sinning.

Amen! If not sinning meant salvation, there would be none saved.

 

[Linda64]

I guess it comes down to a fundamental difference in understanding salvation. I believe that I am saved by the work Christ did on the cross, and apparently you believe you are saved by not sinning.

I never inferred that I am saved by not sinning---what I said is that once one is saved (by trusting in the shed blood of Christ on the cross), it is not a license to keep on sinning. We are to live holy and separated lives. We all grow spiritually--some are more spiritually mature than others. Some remain babes all their lives--that doesn't make anyone "more" saved than someone else. God has "worked" HIS works in us (Eph. 2:10)--it is NOT OUR works which sanctify us--it is HIS works which HE works THROUGH us which sanctify us. HIS righteousness is imputed to the believer. (2 Cor. 5:21)-- all else (our own righteousness) is "hay, wood, and stubble."

The Corinthian believers were carnal (1 Cor. 3:1-3), yet Paul called them "saints" (1 Cor. 1:2). Sinless perfectionism cannot be attained until Christ returns and changes our mortal body into a glorified resurrected body. (1 Cor. 15:50-54)

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

ALL in verse 51 of 1 Cor. 15, means ALL those whom Paul calls "saints", which means even "carnal" Christians--they will lose rewards (works will be burned "hay, wood, and stubble"), but they will be saved and enter the kingdom.

 

[av1611jim]

LINDA SAID:
ALL in verse 51 of 1 Cor. 15, means ALL those whom Paul calls "saints", which means even "carnal" Christians--they will lose rewards (works will be burned "hay, wood, and stubble"), but they will be saved and enter the kingdom.

_______________________________________________________________

You were doing good right up until you added that last three words. Nothing in your proof texts say they will get to inherit the kingdom.

Yes, ALL saints will be changed. But not ALL saints get to enter the Kingdom. Otherwise Jesus' parables make no sense. Particularly Matt:24:45-51.