KJVO

[Ready to Harvest]

the KJVER as far as I know, has an error in that it says Christ is a living spirit, while in the KJV it says quickening spirit. Living spirit is an error, to quicken means to make alive, the Greek word means to vitalize, to make alive, or to give life. living is an error.

Other than that I have not really seen problems with the KJVER.
I can't remember if it retains the singular and plural 2nd person pronouns or not, but I am a fan of retaining the thees and thous for clarity and accuracy.

They corrected that issue. And it does retain singular and plural by using superscripts.

 

[robycop3]

TRUTH is, the whole KJVO idea, and the myth it created, are all MAN-MADE. There's NOTHING FROM GOD supporting that idea. The whole thingie is entirely man-made.

if one PREFERS the KJV (or any other one valid version) for whatever reason, fine, but to declare the KJV (or any other version) as the ONLY valid English Bible translation is entirely-false, with no ACTUAL AUTHORITY behind it at all.

 

[37818]

The KJV is my base study Bible translation. The only modern translation in popular use that I find barley tenable is the NKJV. Of the modern translations it is the one that I commonly use. And it being the only modern translation that I recommend to others. I reference my NASB (1977 ed) for translation against the NKJV. And the NIV (1984 ed) for its margin notes. The ESV after I bought a good bound edition, I have become disappointed with the translation.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Jordan,

Do you know that David Cloud did not research the facts in his book Modern Bible version hall of shame? He used the prolific lies by KJVO's.

I personally sent him an email inquiring as to why he did this? I also sent him this link:
Westcott and Hort Resource Centre

David did reply, and he was not happy. How dare I question his words? Then he goes on to tell me that when he wrote the book the internet did not exist, so he had to rely on other sources. If he had read the books by Westcott and Hort (and son), he would have known there was a problem. But he didn't read them.

Go to this link:

The Modern Bible Version Hall of Shame, Way of Life Literature

A link to the book (PDF version) is available, and free.

On page 101 you will find these quotes:

“I have been persuaded for many years that Mary worship and Jesus worship have very much in common in their causes and their results” (Hort to Westcott, 1865, cited in Life of Hort, Vol. II, p. 50). [COMMENT: This is another evidence of Hort’s Romeward leanings.]



“After leaving the monastery, we shaped our course to a little oratory which we discovered on the summit of a neighbouring hill. … Fortunately we found the door open. It is very small, with one kneelingplace; and behind a screen was a ‘Pieta’ the size of life [an image of Mary and the dead Christ] … Had I been alone I could have knelt there for hours” (Westcott in 1847 on a visit to a Catholic shrine in Europe, cited in Life of Westcott, Vol. I, p. 81). [COMMENT: Westcott shared Hort’s enthusiasm for Mary worship and dead ritualism. I have visited many such Catholic shrines in various parts of the world, including in Rome itself, but unlike Westcott, Rome’s idolatry repels and revolts rather than draws me.]

Compare these quotes to Westcott and Hort Resource Center.

Houston, we have a problem.

I was glad to be able to see the updated book. It confirmed what I suspected. David Cloud did not go back and either remove the quotes or clarify the truth of the matter.

Now me, I couldn't sit under the leadership of such a man who would slander others without any evidence. If he had taken the time to actually read the evidence which is in the books, I don't think he would have done this.

Reply from David Cloud:

when and if I do publish another edition of that book, I will include more of the context so that it can be noted that Hort expressed mild distaste for “excessive finery and meanness of ornaments” and “superstition.” But it is obvious to me that he did not abhor it as he should have and as the Psalmist would have (Ps. 119:128). He spoke of the fallen grandeur of the Romish church. There never was any grandeur to the Romanish “church” so called. And I can see no good reason why he would want to kneel at such a place for hours.
As for someone challenging me about this in the past and me not correcting it according to their challenge, I don’t recall it and I have no idea what such a person might have said exactly. I can tell you, though, that there has only been one “edition” of Bible Version Hall of Shame, and any modifications I have made through the years remain unpublished so far. So the idea that I have simply refused to correct an error is wrong. I am all about truth, my friend. God knows my heart.
David Cloud
Way of Life Literature
dcloud@wayoflife.org
www.wayoflife.org

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

They corrected that issue. And it does retain singular and plural by using superscripts.

I just received one in the mail a few days ago and it has “living” spirit.

 

[Yeshua1]

The KJV is my base study Bible translation. The only modern translation in popular use that I find barley tenable is the NKJV. Of the modern translations it is the one that I commonly use. And it being the only modern translation that I recommend to others. I reference my NASB (1977 ed) for translation against the NKJV. And the NIV (1984 ed) for its margin notes. The ESV after I bought a good bound edition, I have become disappointed with the translation.

The modern versions did not change ANY major Christian doctrine of the Faith, correct?

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Jordan,

Do you know that David Cloud did not research the facts in his book Modern Bible version hall of shame? He used the prolific lies by KJVO's.

I personally sent him an email inquiring as to why he did this? I also sent him this link:
Westcott and Hort Resource Centre

David did reply, and he was not happy. How dare I question his words? Then he goes on to tell me that when he wrote the book the internet did not exist, so he had to rely on other sources. If he had read the books by Westcott and Hort (and son), he would have known there was a problem. But he didn't read them.

Go to this link:

The Modern Bible Version Hall of Shame, Way of Life Literature

A link to the book (PDF version) is available, and free.

On page 101 you will find these quotes:

“I have been persuaded for many years that Mary worship and Jesus worship have very much in common in their causes and their results” (Hort to Westcott, 1865, cited in Life of Hort, Vol. II, p. 50). [COMMENT: This is another evidence of Hort’s Romeward leanings.]



“After leaving the monastery, we shaped our course to a little oratory which we discovered on the summit of a neighbouring hill. … Fortunately we found the door open. It is very small, with one kneelingplace; and behind a screen was a ‘Pieta’ the size of life [an image of Mary and the dead Christ] … Had I been alone I could have knelt there for hours” (Westcott in 1847 on a visit to a Catholic shrine in Europe, cited in Life of Westcott, Vol. I, p. 81). [COMMENT: Westcott shared Hort’s enthusiasm for Mary worship and dead ritualism. I have visited many such Catholic shrines in various parts of the world, including in Rome itself, but unlike Westcott, Rome’s idolatry repels and revolts rather than draws me.]

Compare these quotes to Westcott and Hort Resource Center.

Houston, we have a problem.

I was glad to be able to see the updated book. It confirmed what I suspected. David Cloud did not go back and either remove the quotes or clarify the truth of the matter.

Now me, I couldn't sit under the leadership of such a man who would slander others without any evidence. If he had taken the time to actually read the evidence which is in the books, I don't think he would have done this.

you claim that you saw the updated version of Modern Bible Version Hall of Shame, According to David Cloud, and by looking at the front of his book, I can see that there is only one copyright from 2005 and no mention of revisions or updates, Cloud is in the habit of noting when he expands or updates books and articles that he publishes. It would seem to me that your accusations toward him are not factual.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

I just received one in the mail a few days ago and it has “living” spirit.

the latest copyright is from 2015.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Reply from David Cloud:

when and if I do publish another edition of that book, I will include more of the context so that it can be noted that Hort expressed mild distaste for “excessive finery and meanness of ornaments” and “superstition.” But it is obvious to me that he did not abhor it as he should have and as the Psalmist would have (Ps. 119:128). He spoke of the fallen grandeur of the Romish church. There never was any grandeur to the Romanish “church” so called. And I can see no good reason why he would want to kneel at such a place for hours.
As for someone challenging me about this in the past and me not correcting it according to their challenge, I don’t recall it and I have no idea what such a person might have said exactly. I can tell you, though, that there has only been one “edition” of Bible Version Hall of Shame, and any modifications I have made through the years remain unpublished so far. So the idea that I have simply refused to correct an error is wrong. I am all about truth, my friend. God knows my heart.
David Cloud
Way of Life Literature
dcloud@wayoflife.org
www.wayoflife.org

Just as I said, Cloud did nothing to clear this matter up. Bottom line, he's perfectly content to let these lies exist. This is where he falls into the Riplinger camp. Even then, he did not read the sources that were available to him, he chose instead to use the lies. Do a google search of Westcott and Hort. KJVO lies, one after another, after another. Cloud has a Christian duty to fully research his material and a moral duty to tell the truth.

"I don't recall" is what people say when they don't want to own what they have done. I expect that from Gipp and Riplinger, but not David Cloud. He is now slipped off my list of credible sources.

Both of claims that Westcott and Hort loved Catholicism are flat out lies.

But, none of this should have stopped you from finding the truth. Why haven't you?

 

[Dave G]

TRUTH is, the whole KJVO idea, and the myth it created, are all MAN-MADE. There's NOTHING FROM GOD supporting that idea. The whole thingie is entirely man-made.

Quite right, and I agree.
None of it is explicitly found in God's word.

Not. One. Word.
It's basically nothing more than occasional men pointing to something and saying, "hey, that's different" and asking "why?".
Some of those men ( and women ) may even be concerned that the difference is in man's words versus God's words, and whether or not there's a "bait and switch" going on.

But it seems that speaking of this subject ( especially here ) is dangerous for one that loves the AV and sees problems when comparing it to others.
Yes, I suppose that means that I view it as the foundation to which all other English translations should compare ( because I've been using it since I was called in 1978 ), but I see nothing really wrong with that.

For me, it's personal, and not a matter of breaking fellowship over.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm not advocating that God's children be forced to read from a 400 year old English translation if they don't like to...
I just want people to know that I think there's more to the modern translations than simply men trying to arrive at the best one.

However, what I see as very odd, is that so many people have little trouble with picking up translations that, in some places, word things entirely different than the AV... and don't seem to see a problem with it.
In the end, there's nothing I can do about that except to let it go.



From my perspective, it really is strange being "KJVO" ( Well, "KJV Preferred" and "TRO" ) and believing in election.
I've seen the comments, for example, about Will Kinney and how some here see him.

He really doesn't stand a chance, does he?


So...

From here on out, I will steer a wide course to avoid threads like these on this forum, and on any forum for that matter.
I may post on others, but to me, there's far too much hatred brewing here about this one issue than on anything else I've yet to see.




May God bless you all.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

you claim that you saw the updated version of Modern Bible Version Hall of Shame, According to David Cloud, and by looking at the front of his book, I can see that there is only one copyright from 2005 and no mention of revisions or updates, Cloud is in the habit of noting when he expands or updates books and articles that he publishes. It would seem to me that your accusations toward him are not factual.

It seems to me, that David Cloud published things were not true, and is not setting a godly standard for Christian behavior.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

It seems to me, that David Cloud published things were not true, and is not setting a godly standard for Christian behavior.

I am still waiting for you to prove your claim
that Cloud published an update version of his book that he refuses to change.

Cloud told me he will look more into the quotes and change them if he feels they are warranted.

Prove your accusation or stop accusing Cloud of refusing to fix the quotes.

 

[Ready to Harvest]

I just received one in the mail a few days ago and it has “living” spirit.

That is because you bought an old edition.

 

[Logos1560]

Reply from David Cloud:

. So the idea that I have simply refused to correct an error is wrong. I am all about truth, my friend. God knows my heart.
David Cloud

In a new thread entitled "KJV-only failures to correct errors," I provide clear evidence that David Cloud does not correct some errors when they are pointed out to him.

 

[37818]

The modern versions did not change ANY major Christian doctrine of the Faith, correct?

On the premise that is true, are you arguing one should then be willing to omit portions of God's word?

 

[Yeshua1]

In a new thread entitled "KJV-only failures to correct errors," I provide clear evidence that David Cloud does not correct some errors when they are pointed out to him.

Most of those ensnared by KJVO cannot change their positions regarding known errors in their position!

 

[robycop3]

On the premise that is true, are you arguing one should then be willing to omit portions of God's word?

The "omissions" KJVOs cite are actually ADDITIONS in the KJV.

 

[robycop3]

Most of those ensnared by KJVO cannot change their positions regarding known errors in their position!

Why?

Because of...PRIDE!

The KJVO does not wanna admit he was hoodwinked by whoever/whatever led him to be KJVO. I have repeatedly, for many years, pointed out to KJVOs that they don't have one word of SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT for their myth; therefore it CANNOT be true. It has no AUTHORITY to believe it.

Those same KJVOs reject many other false doctrines for the same reason - lacka Scriptural support, but they turn a blind eye when it comes to THEIR OWN false doctrine!

 

[David Kent]

The REAL problem is there wwas NOT any corn as we know it in those fields! It was grain, likely wheat or some other kind of grass. Corn was not brought to that part of the world til it was discovered in the "New World"!

In the 17th century, most grain was called "corn", but still, only true corn has "ears".

What you call corn is actually Maize. Corn in the bible is wheat. Barley is mentioned sepately.

 

[David Kent]

The "omissions" KJVOs cite are actually ADDITIONS in the KJV.

Nonesense