Leaning Calvinist, Push me in, or Pull me back

[Iconoclast]

But in the start, I merely asked a yes or no question. All of the rest of this was wholly unnecessary. I was merely looking for, yes I see it this way or no I see it that way. I was not answering for Rev Bob, I was asking a question for my own clarification. Nice talking to you

G4m
Yes I like that you have questions and I like the interaction overall it was just that I was looking to be specific with Pastor Bob that's why I answered you very shortly on my phone at first I was trying to avoid doing my last post because I think you know you didn't understand what I was trying to do with Pastor Bob I don't mind your questions at all and I I like the fact that you participate as you do.

 

[glad4mercy]

G4m
Yes I like that you have questions and I like the interaction overall it was just that I was looking to be specific with Pastor Bob that's why I answered you very shortly on my phone at first I was trying to avoid doing my last post because I think you know you didn't understand what I was trying to do with Pastor Bob I don't mind your questions at all and I I like the fact that you participate as you do.

I understand what you are saying and I do apologize for the untimely interjection. I shouldn't have interjected.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
PB...do you make your calling and ELECTION sure?
Have you preached sermons instructing your congregation to do this...

It pressupposes biblical election.

In my opinion, Peter is referring to the establishment of certainty within ourselves. It is obvious that he is talking to saved people (brethren); so, he cannot be telling them to make sure they are one of the elect. The question is not one of security but of assurance. Christians who do not have the sense of assurance are just as secure as those who do, but they are not enjoying the spiritual position they have in God's family. Christians who do not have a sense of assurance are easily defeated by Satan and are constantly discouraged in their walk with God. We are to exercise diligence to assure ourselves, to examine the evidence from God's Word and apply what God has said to our own lives.

I have indeed made my calling and election sure. I have also preached messages dealing with growth in the Christian life that would have included this passage.

 

[Yeshua1]

Pastor Bob, Tcass...

I see both points,

Pastor Bob is saying its not the "work" of them putting the blood on the doorpost, but the faith that the blood will cause the angel of death to passover. Correct?
Therefore its not the doorpost that is US, it is the people inside the house. That now all we have to do is accept the offer of blood given to us....
But was this offered to the Egyptians? Or just the Elect (Israelites)


Tcass, I don't understand the doorposts being us. What significance do the doorposts have besides the object the blood was on? The blood did not effect them any, what are they saved from? explain please...

per your op itself, we have to discern just what the effects of the fall was towards us, what spiritual state/condition that we have been born into, and that will determine whether its saved by the very gift of faith needed that God grants towards us, or if we still have have innate faith in us allowing us to receive Jesus and be saved.

 

[prophecy70]

per your op itself, we have to discern just what the effects of the fall was towards us, what spiritual state/condition that we have been born into, and that will determine whether its saved by the very gift of faith needed that God grants towards us, or if we still have have innate faith in us allowing us to receive Jesus and be saved.

Exactly... Does God innate our faith or do we make better use of our free will and innate faith to believe? What makes us different then non believers who have had all the same opportunity to believe!

 

[Yeshua1]

Exactly... Does God innate our faith or do we make better use of our free will and innate faith to believe? What makes us different then non believers who have had all the same opportunity to believe!

Guess that depends if we believe that a dead person can will themselves to come alive again or not.

 

[InTheLight]

Leaning Calvinist, Push me in, or Pull me back

What? Like you have a choice?

 

[Yeshua1]

Leaning Calvinist, Push me in, or Pull me back

What? Like you have a choice?

Yes, and No!

 

[glad4mercy]

Exactly... Does God innate our faith or do we make better use of our free will and innate faith to believe? What makes us different then non believers who have had all the same opportunity to believe!

God definitely initiates salvation. The first inkling of a desire to seek Him is a result of His Drawing us. This much is agreed on by Calvinists and the great majority of Arminians

What the sides disagree on is whether the drawing is irresistable

 

[Yeshua1]

God definitely initiates salvation. The first inkling of a desire to seek Him is a result of His Drawing is. This much is agreed on by Calvinists and the great majority of Arminians

The big differences are to whom is that calling given towards, and can we resist it or not?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Exactly... Does God innate our faith or do we make better use of our free will and innate faith to believe?

God gives every man a certain measure of light (John 1:9). Some respond - some do not.

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

 

[glad4mercy]

The big differences are to whom is that calling given towards, and can we resist it or not?

Who does He draw? I like what Rev Bob said in post 91 and would add concerning light, "to Him that has, more will be given, and to the one who doesn't, even what He has will be taken away.

Those who respond to what Light God gives them will receive more. Those who reject what Light God has given will have darkened hearts hardened by a judicial act of God.

Judicial hardening, including the hardening spoken of in the Gospels, is a result of REJECTING Light. Look how much light the people in John 6 had been given, but they had time and time again rejected that Light, and their hearts had grown hard, their ears dull of hearing, and eyes that could not see. They could not come to God, because they had not learned of/from the Father.

Not every one who hears the Word LEARNS or is TAUGHT of the Father. Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but the Father has revealed it!

Judicial hardening...The same thing can happen to us who grow up in a Christian family in a nation with churches on every corner, hearing preaching three times a week. We either hear and obey the Gospel or we will become hardened. We have already been judicially hardened as a nation to a large degree

And since all Light comes from God, The elect will not boast, God gets all the Glory, and we shall not boast. For we have nothing that we did not receive

 

[utilyan]

No one reads the bible would consider Calvinism unless there is a Calvinist over their shoulder reading or to present their philosophy.

Calvinist don't believe its on God hence THEY have to explain it.

If something required God's act, I'm not going to bug you about it, I'm going to bug God about it.

The only place where synergy is required from someone is they have to preach the gospel.

If you do not hear the gospel the initial regeneration is impossible according to their science.



You never hear about someone who read the bible, or heard the gospel, spontaneously enter a confusion and seeking out with a Calvinist idea. It has no foundation on scripture.


You give the freshest christians a bible have them read it then explain it to you.......ZERO are Calvinist.

We would have heard THOUSANDS of stories by now. About people seeking Calvinism without knowing the word "Calvinism" but being given the concept through the initial regeneration of the elect.

You don't here that story.


The only testimonies I hear are the cradled and rock-bottom humiliated.

 

[Yeshua1]

I was adding the second part of


I was adding the second part of what you said while you were typing. Who does He draw? Well, what does the scriptures say?

The Father draws unto Jesus all who will be getting saved, not a Universal drawing to all sinners, but to some.

 

[Yeshua1]

No one reads the bible would consider Calvinism unless there is a Calvinist over their shoulder reading or to present their philosophy.

Calvinist don't believe its on God hence THEY have to explain it.

If something required God's act, I'm not going to bug you about it, I'm going to bug God about it.

The only place where synergy is required from someone is they have to preach the gospel.

If you do not hear the gospel the initial regeneration is impossible according to their science.



You never hear about someone who read the bible, or heard the gospel, spontaneously enter a confusion and seeking out with a Calvinist idea. It has no foundation on scripture.


You give the freshest christians a bible have them read it then explain it to you.......ZERO are Calvinist.

We would have heard THOUSANDS of stories by now. About people seeking Calvinism without knowing the word "Calvinism" but being given the concept through the initial regeneration of the elect.

You don't here that story.


The only testimonies I hear are the cradled and rock-bottom humiliated.

All we need to have would be Romans and the Gospel of John, as both would fill up Calvinistic theology books by themselves!

 

[TCassidy]

What? Like you have a choice?

Do you have a choice to believe or reject the Sovereignty of God in salvation? Of course.

 

[prophecy70]

You give the freshest christians a bible have them read it then explain it to you.......ZERO are Calvinist.

How many would be Trinitarian?

 

[TCassidy]

You give the freshest Christians a bible, have them read it then explain it to you.......ZERO are Catholic. Zero.

 

[InTheLight]

Do you have a choice to believe or reject the Sovereignty of God in salvation? Of course.

Sure, you can believe or reject the sovereignty of God in salvation. Does change the fact that God is sovereign in salvation, however.

 

[TCassidy]

Does or doesn't?