"Lesser of Two Evils" fallacy

[just-want-peace]

If a Christian believes it is "WRONG" to vote for the lesser of two evils, then ole slewfoot would have had this nation under his control from day 1, as there would be only non-Christians voting.
Also, this nation is, via the constitution, a government "of, by, and for" the PEOPLE! Christians are included in "the people", so by virtue of the scripture "--obey your gov't--" you are a part of this gov't., whether you choose to participate or not.
When you choose NOT to vote for the lesser, you are in essence allowing another to choose in your stead, which will probably(?) mean another vote for the GREATER!!
In any event, it's your choice, and you are answerable to no one but God!!

 

[HankD]

Hmm, which would be the lesser of two evils come the Democratic Primary:

Biden or Sanders?

 

[just-want-peace]

Hmm, which would be the lesser of two evils come the Democratic Primary:

Biden or Sanders?

I sure hope that was a rhetorical question!?

 

[HankD]

I sure hope that was a rhetorical question!?

It's not for a Democrat and I believe we have at least 2

The point is that "the lesser of two evils" is NOT a fallacy but a reality which Christians must face probably DAILY.

 

[JonC]

You can't be serious. Are you saying that the Messiah, by definition the King of the Jews, had to obey His underlings (who did not recognize Him)???

I am serious - not that Christ had to obey man but that Christ obeyed the Father (IMHO Christ did not, as a man, do what would be sinful for a man to do).

My overall point is that there is no justification for us to sin, period.

 

[JonC]

Moses parents willingly disobeyed Pharaoh, so they chose to do that for the greater good, correct?

No. They obeyed God.

 

[Reynolds]

No it's not. If it is, then God lied with His battle plan for the 2nd battle of Ai. Are you willing to call God a liar? Satan is called a liar by Jesus. Must Jesus then call God a liar? That would equate the eternally holy God with the source of all evil.

Misdirection is when one takes an action which can be interpreted one way or another. A wise person will interpret misdirection correctly and not be fooled. A fool (like the Ai general) will convince himself. You don't have to lie to him, because he lies to himself.

When I do martial arts sparring, and fake a low front kick but turn it into a round kick to the head, I am using misdirection. My fake kick is an action which, when the unwary opponent sees it, he will convince himself of the low kick being the real attack. A good fighter will not be mis-directed.

On the other hand, a lie is always words. Note the difference. Misdirection is an action, but lying requires words.

They are both deceit.

 

[Yeshua1]

No. They obeyed God.

Rahab sinned and obeyed the Lord, correct?

 

[John of Japan]

I am serious - not that Christ had to obey man but that Christ obeyed the Father (IMHO Christ did not, as a man, do what would be sinful for a man to do).

My overall point is that there is no justification for us to sin, period.

Okay, that sounds a lot better. You had me going there.

 

[John of Japan]

They are both deceit.

So if that's your view, I'll ask again. Was God deceitful--a liar--when He gave the battle plan using misdirection to Israel for the 2nd battle of Ai?

Read about it in Joshua 8.

 

[John of Japan]

If a Christian believes it is "WRONG" to vote for the lesser of two evils, then ole slewfoot would have had this nation under his control from day 1, as there would be only non-Christians voting.
Also, this nation is, via the constitution, a government "of, by, and for" the PEOPLE! Christians are included in "the people", so by virtue of the scripture "--obey your gov't--" you are a part of this gov't., whether you choose to participate or not.
When you choose NOT to vote for the lesser, you are in essence allowing another to choose in your stead, which will probably(?) mean another vote for the GREATER!!
In any event, it's your choice, and you are answerable to no one but God!!

The English idiom "lesser of two evils" is misleading here. That idiom is not normally referring to actual evil, but is usually referring to inconvenience, or preference. Here's a dictionary website for that: Definition of lesser of two evils | Dictionary.com

There is never, ever a need for a Christian to choose the lesser of two moral evils. The Bible specifically says so: "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (1 Cor. 10:13).

 

[Marooncat79]

The Hebrew midwives in Exodus were told to commit infanticide on the Hebrew infants upon birth. The midwives lied and told the Egytians that the children were born before they could get there to birth them.

 

[JonC]

The Hebrew midwives in Exodus were told to commit infanticide on the Hebrew infants upon birth. The midwives lied and told the Egytians that the children were born before they could get there to birth them.

Do you think that that lie was a sin (that God "hated" what the midwives said...or that God hated what Rahab said of the spies)?

Personally, I do not as I don't believe that the midwives or Rahab sinned in the "lie", but that motives do come into play when we speak of a lie.

From the human perspective this is not always the case. Members often accuse other members of lying when in fact the motive is unknown (often the statements are situational, or even misstatements). I believe that God looks to the heart - not that motive justifies sin but that sin is not as simplistic as legalistic obedience to the word of the law as opposed to the "spirit" of the law.

We (those of us who have parented children) can see this in how children disobey by "obeying" and even obey in "disobedience".

 

[Reynolds]

So if that's your view, I'll ask again. Was God deceitful--a liar--when He gave the battle plan using misdirection to Israel for the 2nd battle of Ai?

Read about it in Joshua 8.

No. He commanded a man to be.

Please tell me exactly what words Rahab should have used to answer the direct question asked of her.

 

[John of Japan]

No. He commanded a man to be.

So, in your view God did not lie, but He commanded lying? How is that something a holy God would do?

In American jurisprudence, if I don't do the actual deed but lead or help others to do it, I am culpable. How would a holy God be culpable in lying and still be holy and true?

Please tell me exactly what words Rahab should have used to answer the direct question asked of her.

That would depend on exactly what words the ones pursuing the spies said. Verbal misdirection is a response to verbal query. If someone asks me where they went, and they went left but I say he went right, that is a lie. If in the same situation I am asked where someone went and I say, "Did you check to the right?" then I have not said something that is untrue, so I have not lied. If they assume that I am saying the man went right, that error is on them, not me.

Definition of lie: "to deliberately say something that is not true." (lie (verb) American English definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary)

 

[Reformed]

That would be misdirection, not lying. The thief deceives himself.

I was in military intelligence. Misinformation is an ancient military tactic. Is it lying? No.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[John of Japan]

I was in military intelligence.

Really? Very cool!

I have a friend who was in Air Force intelligence listening to Russian fighter pilots. He has some scary stories--like having a Russian pilot on the border with Turkey ask permission to launch a missel.

Misinformation is an ancient military tactic. Is it lying? No.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Right. So if the enemy chooses to believe a purloined missive stating that we have two divisions where we only have a brigade, that's on him.

 

[HankD]

Suppose the spies said we will go west 10 miles then south.

And Rahab said - they went west.

Did she lie?

 

[Reynolds]

So, in your view God did not lie, but He commanded lying? How is that something a holy God would do?

In American jurisprudence, if I don't do the actual deed but lead or help others to do it, I am culpable. How would a holy God be culpable in lying and still be holy and true?

That would depend on exactly what words the ones pursuing the spies said. Verbal misdirection is a response to verbal query. If someone asks me where they went, and they went left but I say he went right, that is a lie. If in the same situation I am asked where someone went and I say, "Did you check to the right?" then I have not said something that is untrue, so I have not lied. If they assume that I am saying the man went right, that error is on them, not me.

Definition of lie: "to deliberately say something that is not true." (lie (verb) American English definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary)

Read the passage. The question is there. Answer it in a way that is not a lie yet saves the spies.

If God can command the ending of human life, He can command deceit.

 

[John of Japan]

Read the passage. The question is there. Answer it in a way that is not a lie yet saves the spies.

I apologize. I had forgotten, but yes, the question is there. I'm not sure why you are after me to fashion an answer that is misdirection. It's not a hard thing to do. Here are possibilities.

1. Scared misdirection: I was scared to death. Why don't you soldiers do better at defending? Your king is depending on you.

2. Aggressive misdirection: What? You didn't see them go out? Why are you hassling me? Do your job!

3. Geographic misdirection: Search my living room all you want. (The men were on the roof.)

Etc., etc. Come on, use your own imagination. Misdirection is actually easier to do than lying, since the liar must then remember what is false and what is true, and what each previous lie was, but misdirection only deals with the true.

The truth is, God was on her side. She acted in faith. She was from a heathen culture that did not know lying is a sin (like the USA nowadays). But the Bible teaches that anyone who wants to avoid sin will be helped by the Lord: "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (1 Cor. 10:13).

There is never, ever, an excuse for doing evil that good may come. The Bible is clear on that.

If God can command the ending of human life, He can command deceit.

Not analogous at all. God created life, and is the "judge of all the earth." He has every right and authority to end any life on earth He wishes to--even yours or mine.

However, God is a true God, and hates lying. Lying occurs twice in this proverb of seven abominations to God in Prov. 6:

"16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief.19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."