Featured Let's Talk About The Word Draw..

What? No. Why would I do that? I am working with παντας

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πᾶς pâs, pas; including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole:—all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), × daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.



KJV Translation Count — Total: 8x

All 8 times drag would not fit in the verses

The KJV translates Strong's G1670 in the following manner: draw (8x).
Outline of Biblical Usage G138; to drag (literally or figuratively):—draw. Compare G1667.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon Acts 21:30); future ἑλκύσω (ἑλκύσω Rec.elzJohn 12:32); 1 aorist εἵλκυσα ((infinitive (John 21:6) ἑλκύσαι Rbez elz L T WH, ἑλκύσαι R {s} G Tr); cf. Alexander Buttmann (1873) Ausf. Spr. § 114, vol. ii., p. 171; Krüger, § 40, under the word; (Lob. Paralip., p. 35f; Veitch, under the word)); from Homer down; the Sept. for מָשַׁך; to draw;
1. properly: τό δίκτυον, John 21:6, 11; μάχαιραν, i. e. unsheathe, John 18:10(Sophocles Ant. 1208 (1233), etc.); τινα, a person forcibly and against his will (our drag, drag off), ἔξω τοῦ ἱεροῦ, Acts 21:30; εἰς τήν ἀγοράν, Acts 16:19; εἰς κριτήρια, James 2:6 (πρός τόν δῆμον, Aristophanes eqq. 710; and in Latin, as Caesar b. g. 1, 53 (54, 4)cumtriniscatenisvinctustraheretur, Livy 2, 27cumalictoribusjamtraheretur).
2. metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας... ἑλκουσης ἐπί ἡδονάς, Plato, Phaedr., p. 238 a.; ὑπό τῆς ἡδονῆς ἑλκόμενοι, Aelian h. a. 6, 31; likewise 4 Macc. 14:13; 15:8 (11).trahitsuaquemquevoluptas, Vergil, ecl. 2, 65); πάντας ἑλκύσω πρός ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; (Trench, § 21, Compare: ἐξέλκω.

 

David , how is this prompt you for drag?

 

We also aren't dealing with the lexical form πας. We are working with πάντας. A dictionary limited to just the lexical form will not help you here.

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because it is not being used as drag in the other uses

 

is it masculine plural in the verses, I have πᾶς • (pâs) (feminine πᾶσᾰ, neuter πᾶν) (in the plural) all, every, each. (in the singular) whole.

Why do you have πάντας?

 

Is this word in the verses? I was going by Strong's

I understand it means ALL

i undestand your point but it means all on an individual basis, not as a group but each of the group

 

You said ἕλκουσιν cant mean drag in James 2:6, yet you quoted the above which says "a person forcibly and against his will (our drag, drag off)" in regards to James 2:6.



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....because the Greek says πάντας ἑλκύσω πρὸς ἐμαυτόν.

No article used. Plural. Which means it has the range of meaning "every kind of" and "any entity out of a totality" both quotes from 2 separate lexicons. The latter being the BDAG

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touche' but why do you think that is drag? The translators did not,

 

I agree , but that is not a different meaning and it is not as suggested here as groups
The plural of ALL, individually counted to include everyone.

Am I wrong?

 

They are synonymous in certain contexts. Drawing and dragging and a fishing line to ones self is the samething.

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blame it ion KJV translators?

 

but maybe since there is no fishing net from God to sinners and we have Jesus on the cross, lifted uo where all can see, Sin judged I will bet it is draw

 

Let's look at Matthew 12:15. Did Jesus heal "all" people in the sense of each and every person? Or did he heal "all" in the sense of he just healed the sick? Healthy people don't need healing...he healed a limited group, which was sick people.

Mark 2:12. Was Jesus in the sight of "all" people on the sense of everyone? No, it was limited to the people around him.

Ephesians 4:14, does Paul mean that there is someone who has been carried away by every single doctrine? No he means "all -types" in a general sense. That people are carried off by all different kinds of doctrine.

1 John 4:1. Does John mean dont believe "all", every single spirit? No context and grammar show he is limiting "all" to certain kinds of spirits.

I realize that not all English translations have "all" in English. But the Greek words all have the lexical form of πας.

Πας certain doesn't not mean "all" in the sense of every single one or thing in totality in all instances. One must look at context and grammar.



Both verse here limit "all" to a type of person.

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"Draw" isnt bad. It is within the realm of acceptable translation. I don't blame them.

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