I will trust the BDAG and Barclay Newman Lexicons over Google translate
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Let's Talk About The Word Draw..
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I will trust the BDAG and Barclay Newman Lexicons over Google translate
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Yet is been demonstrated it certainly does have that possibility. You are arguing against respected Greek Lexicons.
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Ελληνική Ευαγγελική Εκκλησία
You can also Google "Greek Evangelical Church" as Well. They are part of the World Communion of Reformed Churches as well.
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koine was lost until early 19th century translationsyou got about 95% of the population greek orthodox, they still use koine in their liturgy and learn it in school as part of curriculum.
That word has the possibility of meaning drag as much as it meaning pizza.
You know for Calvinism to work a person only needs to hear the gospel.......any minute now millions of those greeks are going to spontaneously become Calvinist.
..........nope.
P
Paul brought the Gospel to Greece, It certainly was not Calvinistic
Quote it then, you have not. D R A G.
Barclay Newman : "draw, attract; drag (of coercion)"
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Are you implying Paul was Calvinistic or questioning when was the first church in Greece ?
is that koine greek?
Of course I would say Paul was Calvinistic, but regardless I said the first PROTESTANT church was Calvinistic. Paul may have been a protestor but not against the RCC, seeing how it was not formed yet.
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nope , Paulicians and other who later became Baptists are not protestants and are not Calvinistic. The deviant doctrines developed much later. After all if one accepts predestination, why have a mission trip?
The Paulicans were started by a group of people who venerated Paul and got their name from their founder Paul of Samosta. Not the apostle Paul. The certain protested against Rome, Armenian, and the Greek church, by calling them Satanic.
For pretty much the same reason Amrinians have a mission trip. It is replys above that show one side is not even remotely listening to the other side.
We don't know the who the elect are. They must hear and respond to external calling. They can't hear the external calling if no one gives it to them.
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Reformed1689
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Different context Bob.
Verse 65 does not clarify the draw in verse 44. Not sure how you make that distinction. Nobody is going to naturally come to Christ. It first has to be granted (v. 65) by sovereign election. But there also has to be a change in that person that draws (drags) them against their natural will of sin.
I'm not implying it, I am saying it. Read Paul's magnum opus the Epistle to the Romans.
Reformed1689
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Show, in context, how you are not changing the definitions.
Yes, the change is that they've been enabled or granted the ability to come to Jesus.
So you think "granting" in verse 65 means an ability to come to Jesus through "sovereign election". Hmmm...
John 6:65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” [NIV]
"given unto him" [KJV]
"granted unto him" [ESV] [NJKV] [NASB] [HCSB]
Nothing here is said about election.
wrong name on my part , Followers of Paul,l coverts who were from Greece and Asia Minor were not Calvinists
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
What do you mean nothing there about election? That is the precise meaning of election. The Father has certainn people who are elect unto salvation. He later changes, through the Spirit, their will. This is not voluntary on behalf of the individual. It is a forceful change by the Father. He brings them to Himself. Draws, just as drawing fish out of water, to Himself. It is nothing done on the part of the person. Zip. Zilch. Zero. It is the work of God and God alone.
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