Liberty or Death?

[preachinjesus]

They write these things to be vague for a reason. The way this bill is written, no one defined what "rationing" of healthcare means and thus the panel could just about choose to do whatever it wants.

Very dangerous.

Actually the law, and most of the are, is pretty precise when it gets to nuts and bolts. Granted the enforcement of aspects allows the regulatory bodies to have leeway in the operation of the law. This is sensible.

However, and specifically on this issue, the law is precise. If you disagree please show us where it is vague and the precise statutes concerning this regulatory board that you concerned with from the above PDF I linked.

 

[Zaac]

There is no rationaing board. Read the truth.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/07/14/1342845/health-panel-claim-is-not-true.html

How does what this link say change what I just said? The panel does exist.No one has defined what rationing is in the law, so the panel technically can ration in the manner that people are apprehensive about if the rationing helps reduce the cost of Medicaid.

It's in the bill. There's no need to link to a fact check when the Bill says otherwise.

 

[Zaac]

Actually the law, and most of the are, is pretty precise when it gets to nuts and bolts. Granted the enforcement of aspects allows the regulatory bodies to have leeway in the operation of the law. This is sensible.

However, and specifically on this issue, the law is precise. If you disagree please show us where it is vague and the precise statutes concerning this regulatory board that you concerned with from the above PDF I linked.

Again, the bill specifically speaks to not rationing healthcare but it doesn't define what that entails, and thus the freedom to do a whole lot of stuff is still there.

 

[Arbo]

Where is Crabtownboy when you need him?

Leaving the USA, I understand.

 

[freeatlast]

How does what this link say change what I just said? The panel does exist.No one has defined what rationing is in the law, so the panel technically can ration in the manner that people are apprehensive about if the rationing helps reduce the cost of Medicaid.

It's in the bill. There's no need to link to a fact check when the Bill says otherwise.

I must assume that you did not read the article. They have no authority to do it and second it is humanly impossible for 15 people to go over cases one by one. So no not even in theory can they do it as the law is written. Read the third and fourth paragraphs and you will see the truth. The law would have to be changed for it to happen so no it is not in the bill at this time. Such claims are simply false and should not be part of the Christian agenda for truth.

 

[freeatlast]

Again, the bill specifically speaks to not rationing healthcare but it doesn't define what that entails, and thus the freedom to do a whole lot of stuff is still there.

So the absence of something means that we should go around and claim it is true or could happen? We need to stop playing the same game as the world and start speaking truth. There is no suggestion in the bill for rationing health care. That is the truth and nothing should be added. There is enough about it that is not good without making or suggesting false accusations.

 

[OldRegular]

Actually the law, and most of the are, is pretty precise when it gets to nuts and bolts. Granted the enforcement of aspects allows the regulatory bodies to have leeway in the operation of the law. This is sensible.

However, and specifically on this issue, the law is precise. If you disagree please show us where it is vague and the precise statutes concerning this regulatory board that you concerned with from the above PDF I linked.

Have you read the law. It is unintelligible to all except bureaucrats. How can a 2700 page bill be precise?

 

[freeatlast]

Have you read the law. It is unintelligible to all except bureaucrats. How can a 2700 page bill be precise?

Why do you make a false statement? Did you read what he wrote? He did not say that 2700 pages are intelligible. He said this one issue is.

 

[OldRegular]

http://docs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf

This is a PDF of the bill. Please download it and show us where the death panels are in the legislation.

Since you claim they are in the bill you should be able to easily find them and tell us where they are using specific citations. Thanks and we'll all await your reply.

Even the democrats in Congress are not so stupid as to call the 15 member panel a "death panel".

Have you read the bill?

 

[OldRegular]

There is no rationaing board. Read the truth.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/07/14/1342845/health-panel-claim-is-not-true.html

Why should I believe these people?

 

[OldRegular]

I must assume that you did not read the article. They have no authority to do it and second it is humanly impossible for 15 people to go over cases one by one. So no not even in theory can they do it as the law is written. Read the third and fourth paragraphs and you will see the truth. The law would have to be changed for it to happen so no it is not in the bill at this time. Such claims are simply false and should not be part of the Christian agenda for truth.

No one argues they go over each case. They set guidelines that will restrict medical practice. Ask your doctor!

 

[freeatlast]

No one argues they go over each case. They set guidelines that will restrict medical practice. Ask your doctor!

No they do not. They have no authoriy. Read the link or read the bill. You are making false staments.

James 3:1-10
1. My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2. For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3. Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4. Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8. But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

 

[freeatlast]

Why should I believe these people?

If you are claiming they are making false statement I think it would be the Christian thing to back it up with the literal passage from the bill proving your claim, don't you? Other wise it is the same thing the world does.
James 3:1-10
1. My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2. For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3. Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4. Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8. But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

 

[preachinjesus]

Again, the bill specifically speaks to not rationing healthcare but it doesn't define what that entails, and thus the freedom to do a whole lot of stuff is still there.

I disagree. Legislative action of this nature requires mandated change.

The burden of proof is on you. Show us or apologize for your false statements.

 

[preachinjesus]

Have you read the law. It is unintelligible to all except bureaucrats. How can a 2700 page bill be precise?

Red herring. You either have proof or you don't.

Since you've so vociferously announced that death panels are part of this bill you clearly know more than us. Show us. The burden of proof is on you.

Even the democrats in Congress are not so stupid as to call the 15 member panel a "death panel".

Have you read the bill?

I read the bill the weekend before they voted on it. I figured I wanted to see if I could handle a job that pays $174,000 per year, and I also wanted to read the bill. So I did.

Now since you have such deep knowledge of this bill, evidenced by your ability to make such specific accusations you should know exactly where these boards are and how they will function.

So, again, show us!

The burden of proof is on you and anyone else who has claimed they are in this bill. Show us where the death panels in the OP are in the bill or apologize and repent.

Exodus 20:16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
Who is your neighbor? According to Jesus...Luke 10:25-37...everyone is our neighbor.

 

[Robert Snow]

We have every reason to fear the arrogant Fascist in the White House. Call that hyperbole if you like but it is true!

No sir, it is not true. It is fear-mongering on your part. There are plenty of thing about President Obama's presidency to criticize; plenty of things to disagree with, but you are guilty of bearing false witness toward the man God allowed to be put in the office of President of the United States. Your complaint seems to be with God Himself.

 

[OldRegular]

No they do not. They have no authoriy. Read the link or read the bill. You are making false staments.

Have you read the bill?

 

[OldRegular]

No sir, it is not true. It is fear-mongering on your part. There are plenty of thing about President Obama's presidency to criticize; plenty of things to disagree with, but you are guilty of bearing false witness toward the man God allowed to be put in the office of President of the United States. Your complaint seems to be with God Himself.

You denying that Obama is behaving like a Fascist. His favorite statement as he lectures his adoring followers is: Congress is moving to slow, I have to take action. That is not a man who believes in the Constitution.

 

[OldRegular]

If you are claiming they are making false statement I think it would be the Christian thing to back it up with the literal passage from the bill proving your claim, don't you? Other wise it is the same thing the world does.

I see you have assumed your familiar role as judge and jury again.

 

[mandym]

There are no death panels under the ACA provisions. This was a ridiculous argument made by an idiot of a political figure in the RNC to, believe it or not, scare people into disliking a legislative piece of a Democratic President.

Uh...yes there is.