They can never take the place of personal Bible study.
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Line Between Heresy and Difference of Opinion
- Thread starter saturneptune
- Start date
No one says they take the place of personal bible study.they are a help,a tool to equip the saints .You can literally open to any page in this book and have a bible study with dozens of verses ,and definitions that many christians do not know.
earlier you posted this:
the use is it would point her to eccl12
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
or other such verses...so when she speaks with someone at the grocery store she can offer biblical correction to their wrong worldview.
saturneptune
New Member
That is not the problem. The problem is that some use creeds, confessions and chants as their source document, and a basis for interpreting Scripture. The Bible is the source document, and if not one creed or confession existed, no one would be the worse.
You seem to carry a banner for Presbyterians without ever having been a Presbyterain. Still, in the total scope of the issue, you fail to see that man makes mistakes when writing creeds and confessions. They are not inspired. The biggest mistake seems to be the fact that there is a big difference between a creed say, being used to affect an entire denomination that has a hierarchy, or one limited to a local church, such as in the Baptist faith. If a local church adopts or writes a flawed creed, the damage is limited to the local church.
You never did address the point about most creeds emphasizing a "universal church" or the "holy catholic church." How does one believe "in the holy catholic church" or universal church when it does not exist in functionality on earth. They never sent out a missionary, never collected an offering, never administered the two ordinances, never held a worship service. It is the local church that does this.
You never did defend Calvin's writings (Institutes) in relation to infant baptism, or his position on seperation of church and state while governing a theocracy.
Since you seem to embrace creeds and confessions quickly, in the Apostles Creed, it says "I believe in the communion of saints." That means Christians want to be around other Christians. In other words, the Holy Spirit in each Christian has a desire to be near the other Christian. It implies Christians edify and bring out the best in each other. So how is that working out for you?
I already said what catechism and confession i recommend and they are both baptist. as usual your post does not really address anything i said...
it is just what you are fabricating in your mind.that is the root problem ..what is in your mind is not healthy.....
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The cathechism i mentioned has a stronger local church view than you do. i have posted on this before...but it is easier for you to just make up what you think i believe, or imply than what i actually said.....like i suggest..the problem is there for you to see the next time you look at a mirror.
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That works out quite well for me. I have no problem in the edifying that goes on between Christians.Thanks for asking.
I know many Godly Presbyterians....they are Christian brothers.
saturneptune
New Member
Here is some of your edifying skills, they can be picked out in each post.
"as usual your post does not address anything"
"what you are fabricating in your mind"
"that is your root problem"
"what is in your mind is not healthy"
"it is easier for you to make up what you think I believe"
"the problem is there for you to see the next time you look in the mirror"
Yes indeed, you must be due a reward for edification. You always claim, as in the case with DHK, thomas 15, myself, Winman, etc that no personal attacks or names are called, but here it is, from just one post.
Why don't you be direct, tell us we are all headed for the Lake of Fire, and have no faith in Jesus Christ? What is the difference? Why bother to take the time to convey the same message but in a way that circumvents the rules of this board?
Two points, not one word of your posts are ever edifying, and two, and this bears repeating since it is true, two Christians are not at each other's throat over an extended period of time.
saturneptune
New Member
Yet, you have no experience with the Presbyterian faith, not one day. Others who have never been Catholics presume to know what it was like to have experienced that faith.
Leaving my wife out of it, what is better?
If I meet someone in an open place--the middle of a mall or somewhere I am able to strike up a conversation. And the question arises, What is the purpose of man on this earth, as in, why did God us place here (the way an unsaved person would phrase it)?
What would be the better approach?
Rattle off by rote memorization just like a little robot what the Catechism says (quite impersonal).
or:
Tell the person from the heart, and from my own words, using Scripture that I have memorized, why God has put man on this earth.
I prefer the second and I know God would use it. God uses his word.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
A catechism has no such power.
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thomas15
Well-Known Member
Put into the form of a question:
Are the words of the Westminster divines sharper than any two edged sword? Are their words alive and active? Do they penetrate even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow? Do the words of the Baptist confessions judge the thoughts and attitudes of the heart?
Are the words of the Westminster and Baptist Confessions from the beginning and will they last forever? Are they ancient and Holy words? Are they the Words of Life?
Are the words of the Westminster divines sharper than any two edged sword? Are their words alive and active? Do they penetrate even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow? Do the words of the Baptist confessions judge the thoughts and attitudes of the heart?
Are the words of the Westminster and Baptist Confessions from the beginning and will they last forever? Are they ancient and Holy words? Are they the Words of Life?
ONLY the Bible is the ispired/infallible revelation of God to Us today...
Would try to take a mediating stance here, as icon and others can freely chose to use their confessionals/creeds as "aids" to help them understand the Bible, but they are NOT to be REVER used in place or addition to the Bible
saturneptune
New Member
In this case, I think it is more of using creeds and confessions as source texts, and cherry picking verses to support them.
saturneptune
Most of these were probably answers to your personal attacks:wavey:
I do not seek to edify those who come at me as an enemy.I stand by these posts in the context they were offered or i would not have posted them in the first place. Others have already seen your weak attempts to bait me into some kind of violation .Benjamin did a better job of trying this tactic....you not so much.
This is only happening in the hearts and minds of my online opponents such as yourself.i understand your frustration...but look at the facts...
thomas runs off but when confronted he disapppears and makes His snide little comments...never doing anything biblical. DHK is upset because i have pointed out how his ideas are not quite as biblical as he tries to portray. Winman makes up things on the fly...lately 99% of people do not need repentance, they are sinless...lol..God does not regenerate anyone etc,
You are just twisted and seek to use them as ammunition do attempt to harm me...but to no avail, because everyone sees through it. i do not play any two faced game you seek to engage in. Aaron, EWF, PJ have seen the same thing and said so...so you are bent out of shape...I understand!
That is why i said to you put me om ignore and you will untwist yourself.
if i ever want to know how to deal with obese people gossiping at the pot luck supper i will ask you on PM.
I have seen little bible or theology that i need to discuss with you...so if nothing edifys you...see you later....have a nice life!
Most of these were probably answers to your personal attacks:wavey:
I do not seek to edify those who come at me as an enemy.I stand by these posts in the context they were offered or i would not have posted them in the first place. Others have already seen your weak attempts to bait me into some kind of violation .Benjamin did a better job of trying this tactic....you not so much.
In the other thread DHK suggested I was as heretical as Origen and JM.:laugh: then i stopped after listing some 19 other charges....should I give him a group hug:thumbs: i just do not whine about it like you do:laugh:
This is only happening in the hearts and minds of my online opponents such as yourself.i understand your frustration...but look at the facts...
thomas runs off but when confronted he disapppears and makes His snide little comments...never doing anything biblical. DHK is upset because i have pointed out how his ideas are not quite as biblical as he tries to portray. Winman makes up things on the fly...lately 99% of people do not need repentance, they are sinless...lol..God does not regenerate anyone etc,
You are just twisted and seek to use them as ammunition do attempt to harm me...but to no avail, because everyone sees through it. i do not play any two faced game you seek to engage in. Aaron, EWF, PJ have seen the same thing and said so...so you are bent out of shape...I understand!
That is why i said to you put me om ignore and you will untwist yourself.
if i ever want to know how to deal with obese people gossiping at the pot luck supper i will ask you on PM.
I have seen little bible or theology that i need to discuss with you...so if nothing edifys you...see you later....have a nice life!
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A good catechism provides good verses and a proper framework to answer in your own words what scripture declares. a good systematic theology can function that way also...but many do not even want to read a daily bread much less a study book.
A proper catechism gives a working knowledge of the biblical language.
you still have to perform the good work...not the study tool.:thumbs:
saturneptune
New Member
You always talk about how tough you are. In real life, face to face situations, you would be the one running and crying from situations. That is about the tenth time you have mentioned gluttoney and gossip in a frivilous way. These two areas are real sins.
If you are so deep into theology, so well learned, why don't you park your 10/4 good buddy 18 wheeler, stop slowing down the interstates, and lingering around truck stops. Go to seminary, and take over a ministry. What right do you have to betlittle the theology of others from the cab of a truck the bank owns.
By the way, I have gotten several PMs, saying they are praying for me in relation to the onslaught of posts from you. I appreciate the support, but handling people like you in real life are a dime a dozen.
saturneptune
New Member
One of the problems with your whole outlook on theology is that you cannot let go of your Catholic roots, and are a Presbyterian wanna be.
Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.:thumbs:
No doubt they are praying for you to "get well soon" after reading these kind of posts:laugh::laugh::wavey:
saturneptune
New Member
No, obviously I just lied about the messages. Now you can add that to my tendency to be in error, believeing false doctrine, and beng arrogant.
saturneptune
New Member
Since I did not live in the 1500s, I doubt I would have ever asked myself the question "why are thou wroth?" or "if thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?" or would I have come to the conclusion "if thou does not well, sin lieth at the door, and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."
I might have asked myself, if I am walking with the Lord, will He accept me? And, if I am not walking with the Lord, then I am subject to temptation and sin.
Sometimes it is better to express ideas in common, everyday English, instead of how people spoke 500 years ago. I doubt speaking like that particular point in history pleases the Lord any more or less. Do you wear clothes like the Amish and look like a cast member from "Little House on the Prairie." No doubt that also enhances ones walk with God.
There is a big difference between direct and blount on one hand and being obnoxious and hiding behind cuts and pastes on the other.
I already told you that I have a 2,000 book library, another 1,000 books on my computer, and then on the internet access to an unlimited number of materials. Why on earth would I need dusty old catechisms on my shelf when I have access to much better materials than those for personal study. You are not making any sense at all.