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Living With Illegals?
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
Welcome aboard, Lomax! You have a good point that there are a lot of communists in Mexico and has been for many years and that they should fit nicely with the British.
The charge that these people are abused someway can only be laid at the doorstep of big business who wants them here. Otherwise, they use our free medical system, send their children to our schools and demand that we teach them Spanish, decorate their souped-up cars and trucks with the Mexican flag, send their children to our colleges at in-state fees, vote illegally in our elections, evade our taxes by working illegally under the table, and send billions per year back to Old Mexico.
Meanwhile, the Mexican government under Fox and the PAN has proven to be just as corrupt as the previous decades of one-party rule under PRI. And the Catholic Church, always anti-American, has refused to modernize their superstitious practices concerning birth control or raise one penny to alleviate the squalor in the Mexican slums, which stretch for miles in all Mexican cities. At the Vatican, they just look at miles of priceless art works and sip tea with European diplomats and cluck their tongues at the USA.
It has not been shown that Mexicans lack one thing in the USA. They seem adept at getting government services for themselves. Even here in Indianapolis, all government signs are now in both English and Spanish.
Mexico has opposed American foreign policy since the Viet Nam War. Mexico has been little help in dealing with Hugo Chavez as he tries to export war and communism into Colombia and Brazil. As far as I know Mexico had a fiesta on Nine Eleven.
It is Mexico which is a nightmare of government by fear and bribery, where guns are outlawed and the rich Catholic families have private armies to keep the poor in line, where there is a complete social breakdown due to a socialistic government unable to develop natural resources due to a backward judicial system and a backward Catholic theology. And Mexico is a preview of all of Latin America.
The charge that these people are abused someway can only be laid at the doorstep of big business who wants them here. Otherwise, they use our free medical system, send their children to our schools and demand that we teach them Spanish, decorate their souped-up cars and trucks with the Mexican flag, send their children to our colleges at in-state fees, vote illegally in our elections, evade our taxes by working illegally under the table, and send billions per year back to Old Mexico.
Meanwhile, the Mexican government under Fox and the PAN has proven to be just as corrupt as the previous decades of one-party rule under PRI. And the Catholic Church, always anti-American, has refused to modernize their superstitious practices concerning birth control or raise one penny to alleviate the squalor in the Mexican slums, which stretch for miles in all Mexican cities. At the Vatican, they just look at miles of priceless art works and sip tea with European diplomats and cluck their tongues at the USA.
It has not been shown that Mexicans lack one thing in the USA. They seem adept at getting government services for themselves. Even here in Indianapolis, all government signs are now in both English and Spanish.
Mexico has opposed American foreign policy since the Viet Nam War. Mexico has been little help in dealing with Hugo Chavez as he tries to export war and communism into Colombia and Brazil. As far as I know Mexico had a fiesta on Nine Eleven.
It is Mexico which is a nightmare of government by fear and bribery, where guns are outlawed and the rich Catholic families have private armies to keep the poor in line, where there is a complete social breakdown due to a socialistic government unable to develop natural resources due to a backward judicial system and a backward Catholic theology. And Mexico is a preview of all of Latin America.
Whose pseudo-facts should I listen to then?
Alright, putting aside Vdare, there are other sources that show the same thing;
"An analysis of recent census data indicates that the presence of illegal aliens in California is costing the state's taxpayers more than $10.5 billion per year for education, medical care and incarceration."
(source: Federation of American Immigration Reform)
Taxpayers pay $750 million annually to house the 18,000 illegal aliens in California prisons.
(source: US Govt. Accounting Office)
Illegal aliens cost the federal government $10 billion more annually than they pay in taxes.
(source: Center for Immigration Studies)
Maybe you will say that these are all racist organizations. But we have an estimated 8 - 11 million illegal aliens residing in the US as of the 2000 census, with an estimated 700,000 - 800,000 more coming each year.
Clearly we have a problem here, LTN. What would you suggest, other than the compassion thing?
Niteshift,
The problem is that the jobs that the then President Clinton PROMISED would go to Mexico when he open American borders WERE SENT to china and india.
More than $250 billion a year in lost federal tax revenue.
My job and 10 million others were lost.
But the jobs did not go to Mexico like the treaty promised. I would suggest that we send the jobs where we said they would go. America would be a better continent & china and india would have to work to grow their economies.
You are worried about a $10 billion dollar shortfall - that is less than 5% of what we sent in tax dollars (1% of the money we gave away) to foreign countries.
The problem is that the jobs that the then President Clinton PROMISED would go to Mexico when he open American borders WERE SENT to china and india.
More than $250 billion a year in lost federal tax revenue.
My job and 10 million others were lost.
But the jobs did not go to Mexico like the treaty promised. I would suggest that we send the jobs where we said they would go. America would be a better continent & china and india would have to work to grow their economies.
You are worried about a $10 billion dollar shortfall - that is less than 5% of what we sent in tax dollars (1% of the money we gave away) to foreign countries.
SeekingTruth
Member
As I see it, there are two solutions to the problem of illegal aliens, at least thats all I hear being discussed publicly.
A. Solve the "illegal" problem by granting amnesty. Call it what you will, but the cowardly solution being proposed in the Senate is nothing more than a thinly veiled amnesty, with the goal of gaining votes not trying to solve the problem. Does anyone really think these people, who are alreadty lawbreakers, will worry about signing a paper promising to pay a fine, when they know that like all our other so called "immigration reforms", this one will not, cannot be enforced. The last "reform" bill promised to punish business and citizens who hired illegals. I would like to know how many have been prosecuted under that law. This bill will solve the problem by simply declaring the illegals legal. This would be the same as repealing narcotics control laws to solve the narcotics crime problems. If there is no law to break, there are no law breakers.
B. Or---we could enforce the laws on the books already, deport illegals and their families, fine those who employ them, and secure our borders. If that means erecting a wall of China, or something bigger and better, the expense would be worth it. We could then continue allowing immigrants to enter in a legal manner. By the way, that wall should be built on our Canadian border as well as the Mexican border.
This is a compassionate nation. No other nation in history has given so much of its money and the blood of its citizens to help the worlds less fortunate. Our citizens do care about theose less fortunate. Yet, if we allow ourselves to be over run by poverty stricken people, who seem willing to remain in poverty, there won't be enough people paying taxes to cover the welfare bill or to provide for our defense. With no defense, we will cease to be a nation, and of no help to anyone.
A. Solve the "illegal" problem by granting amnesty. Call it what you will, but the cowardly solution being proposed in the Senate is nothing more than a thinly veiled amnesty, with the goal of gaining votes not trying to solve the problem. Does anyone really think these people, who are alreadty lawbreakers, will worry about signing a paper promising to pay a fine, when they know that like all our other so called "immigration reforms", this one will not, cannot be enforced. The last "reform" bill promised to punish business and citizens who hired illegals. I would like to know how many have been prosecuted under that law. This bill will solve the problem by simply declaring the illegals legal. This would be the same as repealing narcotics control laws to solve the narcotics crime problems. If there is no law to break, there are no law breakers.
B. Or---we could enforce the laws on the books already, deport illegals and their families, fine those who employ them, and secure our borders. If that means erecting a wall of China, or something bigger and better, the expense would be worth it. We could then continue allowing immigrants to enter in a legal manner. By the way, that wall should be built on our Canadian border as well as the Mexican border.
This is a compassionate nation. No other nation in history has given so much of its money and the blood of its citizens to help the worlds less fortunate. Our citizens do care about theose less fortunate. Yet, if we allow ourselves to be over run by poverty stricken people, who seem willing to remain in poverty, there won't be enough people paying taxes to cover the welfare bill or to provide for our defense. With no defense, we will cease to be a nation, and of no help to anyone.
Actually, those jobs did go to Mexico as promised. The Mexican government claimed that NAFTA created some 800,000 manufacturing jobs in their country. Since then, many of those jobs have moved on to where even cheaper labor can be found, Asia & India. From your reply I understand that you think the US should provide more good jobs in Mexico? I don't think we have any more of them to give.
Here in the Phoenix area 4 out of 10 are now Mexican/Hispanic and it is said that Whites will be a minority in the near future, so needless to say I am quite accustom to associating with them.
Many if not most of the “illegal aliens” have to get a fake social security card in order to be employed. They or rather their employers pay their taxes but the workers never receive anything back and the government knows this is going on. They usually claim more deductions than they are entitled to though because of this. They cannot get a State drivers license so they get a fake Mexican license that can’t be checked up on to get around. When they receive a traffic citation they usually go to court and pay the fines. Establishing credit for a loan or saving money in a bank is next to impossible for them and forces a lower standard of living.
Some things I don’t like are that they find a way to register and vote through a lax system. They use the emergency room for medical care because they can’t get medical insurance through their fake SS cards as the insurance companies keep better track than the government.
Our government has no problem collecting SS, workman’s comp, car registrations, sales taxes, not to mention car insurance and more but when considering amnesty they proclaim that back taxes must be paid, what a farce…will they subtract the money they accepted from the ones that did pay through their employers while having full knowledge of the game with the fake SS card?
I would say first close the border but then take the responsibility for those we freely allowed to come here for years. I have 3 Mexican boys that live near me being raised mostly by their mother as their father drank and disappeared for most their lives. They came here at 2, 4, and 6years old and are like my own children is some ways. I have disciplined them, made sure they stay in school, helped feed them, taught them morals, the importance of English over Spanish and basically helped raise them for 12 years. They would be totally lost if sent back to Mexico and I would fight tooth and nails to prevent that from happening.
The 19 year old is as disgusted as any US citizen about the Mexican flag carrying and is grateful to be here. He unfortunately cannot get into college because of his legal status and so works construction and DOES pay taxes. BTW, his family is Catholic but he believes as a Baptist, go figure! If and when amnesty is presented we will jump on it and get these boys legal.
Can anyone see the need to have compassion for children like these being shoved into a strange land? Just how strict do you think we should be on those that grew up here and don’t even know Mexico? We need to draw some kind of reasonable line here and go forward as a Christian nation not just take a non-caring attitude and bus every one of them back and say adios.
Many if not most of the “illegal aliens” have to get a fake social security card in order to be employed. They or rather their employers pay their taxes but the workers never receive anything back and the government knows this is going on. They usually claim more deductions than they are entitled to though because of this. They cannot get a State drivers license so they get a fake Mexican license that can’t be checked up on to get around. When they receive a traffic citation they usually go to court and pay the fines. Establishing credit for a loan or saving money in a bank is next to impossible for them and forces a lower standard of living.
Some things I don’t like are that they find a way to register and vote through a lax system. They use the emergency room for medical care because they can’t get medical insurance through their fake SS cards as the insurance companies keep better track than the government.
Our government has no problem collecting SS, workman’s comp, car registrations, sales taxes, not to mention car insurance and more but when considering amnesty they proclaim that back taxes must be paid, what a farce…will they subtract the money they accepted from the ones that did pay through their employers while having full knowledge of the game with the fake SS card?
I would say first close the border but then take the responsibility for those we freely allowed to come here for years. I have 3 Mexican boys that live near me being raised mostly by their mother as their father drank and disappeared for most their lives. They came here at 2, 4, and 6years old and are like my own children is some ways. I have disciplined them, made sure they stay in school, helped feed them, taught them morals, the importance of English over Spanish and basically helped raise them for 12 years. They would be totally lost if sent back to Mexico and I would fight tooth and nails to prevent that from happening.
The 19 year old is as disgusted as any US citizen about the Mexican flag carrying and is grateful to be here. He unfortunately cannot get into college because of his legal status and so works construction and DOES pay taxes. BTW, his family is Catholic but he believes as a Baptist, go figure! If and when amnesty is presented we will jump on it and get these boys legal.
Can anyone see the need to have compassion for children like these being shoved into a strange land? Just how strict do you think we should be on those that grew up here and don’t even know Mexico? We need to draw some kind of reasonable line here and go forward as a Christian nation not just take a non-caring attitude and bus every one of them back and say adios.
Well that's the problem isn't it; we're dealing with real live people. But as the saying goes, when you find yourself in a hole the first thing to do is quit digging. So to most of us, shutting off the flow should be first on the agenda. Then they can talk all they want about some kind of resolution for the people that are already here. Do you think the Mexican people and their government would do any less if the situations were reversed?
NiteShift, I think that Mexicans are quite cruel and already do not offer Americans the same thing that we offer them--trying owning a business south of the border and you find that when you have paid all the bribes you can only have 49% because of Mexican nationalism.
I agree that the problem is that we have real people to deal with and we must act in a practical manner, as we have been, in seeing that they do not suffer because big business and big government want to exploit them.
The solution is to seal the borders with Canada and Mexico--as you suggest--as an act of self-defense in a war that has no end. Islam will keep coming for us just like they are in Iraq.
Once the border is closed except to legal immigration, they we can hospitalize the ill that Mexico has deported and repatriated the criminal that Mexico has deported. There is no need for us to be a jail for criminals that the Mexican wealthy refuse to pay to keep in prison.
Then we can ask the Vatican to sell off some of their wealth to alleviate the suffering in Latin America and tell the Pope until he goes to work and supports a familty that he should not be telling penniless people to have another baby as often as possible or they will go to hell. The Catholic Church is stupid on this point.
Our biggest problem is that illegals will vote illegally--and since both Canadian illegals and Mexican illegals come from socialistic countries and do not want to be Americanized--and those illegals will mostly vote more taxpayer-funded benefits for themselves on the basis that they are "victims" not lawbreakers.
The news is reporting that the Mayor of Mexico City Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador is a communist and may very well be the next President of Mexico. This would extend the power of Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez, also a communist. Chavez is trying to aid those trying to overthrow the government of Colombia and has already controlled an election in Bolivia. Brazil is also in his sights. Venezuela and Mexico have vast oil wealth, as you know.
I agree that the problem is that we have real people to deal with and we must act in a practical manner, as we have been, in seeing that they do not suffer because big business and big government want to exploit them.
The solution is to seal the borders with Canada and Mexico--as you suggest--as an act of self-defense in a war that has no end. Islam will keep coming for us just like they are in Iraq.
Once the border is closed except to legal immigration, they we can hospitalize the ill that Mexico has deported and repatriated the criminal that Mexico has deported. There is no need for us to be a jail for criminals that the Mexican wealthy refuse to pay to keep in prison.
Then we can ask the Vatican to sell off some of their wealth to alleviate the suffering in Latin America and tell the Pope until he goes to work and supports a familty that he should not be telling penniless people to have another baby as often as possible or they will go to hell. The Catholic Church is stupid on this point.
Our biggest problem is that illegals will vote illegally--and since both Canadian illegals and Mexican illegals come from socialistic countries and do not want to be Americanized--and those illegals will mostly vote more taxpayer-funded benefits for themselves on the basis that they are "victims" not lawbreakers.
The news is reporting that the Mayor of Mexico City Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador is a communist and may very well be the next President of Mexico. This would extend the power of Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez, also a communist. Chavez is trying to aid those trying to overthrow the government of Colombia and has already controlled an election in Bolivia. Brazil is also in his sights. Venezuela and Mexico have vast oil wealth, as you know.
CMG, by my comment that the government in Mexico would do the same if the situations were reversed, I meant that if 1,000,000's of Gringos were pouring into Mexico illegally, no doubt they would take strong action to put a stop to it, as our government should be doing.
Turn off the spigot, and then the rest is negotiable!
Turn off the spigot, and then the rest is negotiable!
NiteShift, someone said on tv last night that Mexico has totally sealed her southern border and refuses to allow refugees from Central America into Mexico no matter how poor and destitute they are. So we can see how two-faced Mexico is.
I agree that we should turn off the spigot and then work on the rest of the problems.
I also add that we should turn off the spigot of 1,000,000 legal immigrants or at least drastically reduce the flow, perhaps by 90%. It is folly to move the entire world into this country.
hillclimber
New Member
[sarcasm}Daisy your love for and praise of this President really encourages me.
Originally posted by hillclimber:
[sarcasm]Daisy your love for and praise of this President really encourages me.[/sarcasm]
So if we did build a Great Wall, would we be using illegals for cheap labor to do it? Or will union wages be paid to attract US ditch-diggers and concrete-pourers? Of course, we could use cheap, all-American prison labor. Or we could contract it out to one of Haliburton's subsidiaries...
I suppose if this ever did happen, we'd be seeing a lot more deep-sea fishermen with unusual cargos.
hillclimber
New Member
Originally posted by Daisy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hillclimber:
[sarcasm]Daisy your love for and praise of this President really encourages me.[/sarcasm]
So if we did build a Great Wall, would we be using illegals for cheap labor to do it? Or will union wages be paid to attract US ditch-diggers and concrete-pourers? Of course, we could use cheap, all-American prison labor. Or we could contract it out to one of Haliburton's subsidiaries...
I suppose if this ever did happen, we'd be seeing a lot more deep-sea fishermen with unusual cargos. </font>[/QUOTE]It would of course be bid on at "prevailing wage". Too bad, because I think it (a portion of it, no one is going to build the whole thing IMO) should be an open bid and it should be let to the one(s) that will charge the least for the specified job.
The Galatian
Active Member
Ugly as it can get, that is the most reliable way. And in the long run, it's most often the humane way.
Here's my immigration reform platform:
Aggressively stop the flow of illegal immigrants into this country by all legal means required.
Aggressively pursue and deport all illegal immigrants presently in this country by all legal means required.
Expand the Border Patrol and provide equipment, facilities, and training as necessary to make it effective.
Construct permanent or temporary barries and zones along the borders as necessary and effective.
Temporarily employ federalized National Guard along defined border zones to assist the Border Patrol in enforcement until such time as the Border Patrol can be made effective.
Require all federal, state, county, and city law enforcement agents to aggressively enforce all federal immigration laws.
Make illegal entry, knowingly assisting illegal entry, knowingly harboring illegal immigrants to avoid detection and deportation, or knowingly employing illegal immigrants a felony punishable by stiff fines or imprisonment.
Deny all federal, state, county, and city government public services to illegal immigrants except basic emergency needs during the duration of their custody.
Prohibit any state, county, city, or other local government from making any law supporting illegal immigration.
Revisit the constitutionality of automatic citizenship for children born of illegal immigrants and, if so ruled to be constitutional in its original intent, then make a constitutional amendment denying such automatic citizenship.
Make American English the sole official language for all public communications by all federal, state, county, and city government agencies.
Deny foreign aid to any nation that takes overt or covert action to assist illegal immigration of its citizens in our nation.
Aggressively stop the flow of illegal immigrants into this country by all legal means required.
Aggressively pursue and deport all illegal immigrants presently in this country by all legal means required.
Expand the Border Patrol and provide equipment, facilities, and training as necessary to make it effective.
Construct permanent or temporary barries and zones along the borders as necessary and effective.
Temporarily employ federalized National Guard along defined border zones to assist the Border Patrol in enforcement until such time as the Border Patrol can be made effective.
Require all federal, state, county, and city law enforcement agents to aggressively enforce all federal immigration laws.
Make illegal entry, knowingly assisting illegal entry, knowingly harboring illegal immigrants to avoid detection and deportation, or knowingly employing illegal immigrants a felony punishable by stiff fines or imprisonment.
Deny all federal, state, county, and city government public services to illegal immigrants except basic emergency needs during the duration of their custody.
Prohibit any state, county, city, or other local government from making any law supporting illegal immigration.
Revisit the constitutionality of automatic citizenship for children born of illegal immigrants and, if so ruled to be constitutional in its original intent, then make a constitutional amendment denying such automatic citizenship.
Make American English the sole official language for all public communications by all federal, state, county, and city government agencies.
Deny foreign aid to any nation that takes overt or covert action to assist illegal immigration of its citizens in our nation.