So do you believe in Lordship salvation or Easy believeism or both? Please explain why or why not.
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Lordship salvation vs Easy believeism
- Thread starter Jedi Knight
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convicted1
Guest
I would fall under the LS group. When I repented, I repented of every sin I ever committed. Now, I didn't go into the list and name them off one-by-one to Him, because He knew all I ever did, just like the Samaritan woman.
But I did tell Him I was sorry for every sin I ever committed in His sight. I left my sins at His feet and He covered me in His blood and blotted them out....
I've never been the same man since that very moment, on 5-24-2007 at ~1:30 AM....
:jesus::godisgood::jesus::godisgood:
Right off the bat the question is prejudicial.
Without prejudice the question should read: Do you believe in Lordship salvation or Free Grace?
I'm a believer in Free Grace.
The primary evidence of salvation lies not in the works that we do but in the Holy Spirit that is within us. Romans 8:16-17
So works are an outflowing of the Spirit that lies within us and not the primary proof of salvation.
Lordship Salvation puts the cart before the horse, saying works are the proof of salvation.
Rob
Well done:applause:
A distinction without a difference.
convicted1
Guest
Brother Rob,
When we stand before Christ, what is it that Christ is going to be looking for from us. Was it the amount of knowledge He gave us? How about grace? He will look at us concerning what works we did. Look, I am as anti-works as the next guy is, but in regards to working to be saved. But He looks at them as when He said 'as such as you do this to the least of these, My brothers, you also did it to Me." IOW, everything we did such as visiting the sick, giving to the poor, feeding the hungry, giving clothes to those who need them, &c., in His eyes, these were the same as doing them for Him.
James stated 'faith being alone is dead'. Works are our way of showing the world who we are working for. No works, dead faith. I can find no where where a dead faith pleases Him...
When God looks at me, he sees Christ. I have been fully justified by Christ's works.
I'm justified, I'm free from debt, I'm declared clean. I'm innocent.
Every sin, every trespass, every dirty deed, past and future, has been paid for. Colossians 2:13-14
This means I do not need to obey to please God, Jesus did it all!
I don't owe God obedience - the debt was paid.
I'm obedient because I have been made new, I'm a child of God, I no longer walk in darkness but in light.
The works I do come from the work Christ did to redeem me and the Spirit that is within me.
Rob
I would not use the word proof. Instead I would use the word evidence.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Matthew 5:16 “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven."
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
I am also a believer in free grace. Grace is freely given to us by God. I also believe that works are produced by the Spirit within us. But what do you do when there are no works? What do you when a person claims Christ but shows no fruit of the Spirit in their life (Galatians 5:22-23)? Do you tell them that once they have said the prayer they are to consider themselves children of God, no matter what? Even if they live like the devil for the rest of their lives? I am not suggesting that such a person lost their salvation. I am suggesting they never had it to begin with. Not every professor is a possessor.
There is a reason why Paul told the Corinthians:
2 Corinthians 13:5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?
RIGHT:thumbsup:
convicted1
Guest
But again, works must accompany our faith.
Look at it like this. Faith is never idle, never stagnant, never stale. It's working, always active, always fresh. Faith produces something and is never dead. That's what James was stressing. By my works I will show you my faith. God has ordained that we walk in good works. He never saved us so that we could just set in the house...I am not saying you're advocating this. But we work, produce works that accompany our faith, to make our Father happy.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
:thumbs: I agree
convicted1
Guest
I want to piggyback off my own post a little here...
In regards to faith, it always produces. Look at salvation. When faith is placed in one's life it produces salvation because grace is given to someone through faith. Faith is always in action. I love my wife and I show her I love her by doing stuff for her. I can tell her I love her, but showing her is proof-positive I love her. The same way with God. Telling Him we love Him without works isn't the same as showing Him we love Him by keeping His commandments.
That might be a nice philosophy, but it is not biblical. And you're taking James 2 way out of context
quantumfaith
Active Member
How often must you be obedient to God to demonstrate your love for him? 100% of the time? 85% percent of the time? What is our metric?
Listen Convicted....I agree that a changed heart produces changes in our life, but what is our metric? I don't have the answer, other than to say, being disobedient causes us a good degree of discomfort and tension. While I in no way think that God "winks" at our sin, transgression and disobedience, I also KNOW that he understands our plight and fallibility.
Willis, do you wash feet?
From a free grace perspective your post is almost perfect.
The difference is in the first sentence: a proponent of free grace would say, 'works ... accompany our faith'.
A subtle distinction with that makes the difference between Lordship Salvation and Free Grace.
Rob
The distinction would be in the use of the word Inevitable
If works are the "inevitable" fruit of saving faith, then works are required in order to validate faith. Or, it could rightly be said that without works there is no hope of heaven.
Remember that Lordship Salvation is nothing but Reformation Theology in full swing, which itself is nothing but an adaptation of Rome's justification by works.
I will be charitable and say that you are misinformed. There are those who believe in Lordship Salvation who reject Reformed Theology (not Reformation Theology). So, that misunderstanding is now debunked.
As far as your charge that Lordship Salvation is an akin to Rome's justification by works, well, I will dispense with being charitable and say that your are spewing utter rubbish. I typically avoid responding to your posts, but this travesty of an accusation deserves to be rebuked in the strongest possible terms.
What problem do you have with professed Christians being expected to act like Christians? Justification has always been, and always will be, by faith. No one is justified by works. But a genuine salvation will always result in a changed life. Always and without fail. If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things have passed away. Behold! All things have become new (2 Cor. 5:17). Go back to my first post in this thread for the biblical reasons why Lordship Salvation is what the Bible teaches. I will rightly charge you with Antinomianism (which is what the "free grace" movement is).
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Grace is not FREE! It cost the crucifixion of Jesus Christ when: For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. {2 Corinthians 5:21}
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