You offer random fragmented thoughts that do not deal with what is posted.
Do you know the difference between what has been historically taught on these two positions.
Do you know who taught it, and why?
I doubt it, doubt it seriously.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Loss of salvation---the Extent
- Thread starter Quantrill
- Start date
- Status
Do you know the difference between what has been historically taught on these two positions.
Do you know who taught it, and why?
I doubt it, doubt it seriously.
Is God bound in the confines of time and space?
If (since) God knows all things at all times, is it too much that God would do exactly as He says in Ephesians 1:4?
even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
Notice how Paul speaks of God as being outside of time, but when speaking to men he speaks of them being within a timeline.
Was God lying, or do you feel the need to avoid what God says?
"even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world."
This is what God says. The context is exactly what God says. Please don't make up an excuse to not believe.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
John 6 is OT John 12 .32 is NT as believers were supposed to recognise something different from the Old to the new . Bizarrely Calvinists ( like Pentecostal s ) are quoting the Old testament as if that's the Gospel before the Gospel has even happened.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
I'm not catholic or reformed so I take with a pinch of salt church history and appeals to Authority.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Chose for what ? Do you even notice it does not say ' chosen in him to BE saved '
So you were Chosen in h
Again your starting with philosophy.
1¶Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places ,in Christ Jesus:According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption ( Which is yet to happen. ( Now read Rom 8.23 ) of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Now I ask how were you chosen in him ? And when did you become in him please ?
You seem intent on making excuses in order to hold a false teaching.
Notice what God tells us:
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
Why do you want God to be constantly changing when the Bible tells us He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. ???
Read the whole passage before asking stupid questions. It seems you are purposely being ignorant, Barry. If you desire ignorance then it is a waste of time for any of us to address you.
Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Wow and you respond like a Pentecostal lol . When it says he's the same yesterday, today and forever this is referring to his BEING, essence and nature. John 6 is before the cross . The law is before the cross . the flood was before the cross. The garden of Eden was before the cross. Adam and eve was before the cross. So nothing changed after the cross ? Was the cross just a speed bump along the way ? no big deal. Its all the same brother , pah Jesus death ,burial and resurrection? yeah sure I think it did something, but no big deal . Now John 6 , Woah!!! now your talking .
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
possession of what ? And what is the Gurantee ? And you think the Adoption was when you were converted lol . Read rom 8.23 and seriously join the dots . Step one God has ordained that all those that become in him are chosen before the foundation of the world to be Holy and blameless in love we are then predestined to the adoption ,with the Spirit OF adoption guaranteeing glorification. See how simple it is when you just have the bible?
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Verse 3 READ IT PROPERLY NOTICE THE ( : )
3¶Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who HATH blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: THIS HAPPENED AFTER !!!! believing not before. How do I know this ?
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without christ being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS from the covenants of promise, HAVING NO HOPE !!!!!! , and WITHOUT GOD in the world:
Only someone ideologically possessed would mess this up .
So according to your great theology,when Jesus taught Nicodemus we must be born again,that was only for ot. believers.
yes your ideas are astounding.
translation; this post confirms I have no idea what the teaching is.I will try and hide by mentioning
a debate fallacy and hope no one knows I am just being annoying and have nothing to add. I am not interested in learning, doing my homework, or any such thing
Where do you get off calling his questions stupid?
First of all your belief holds Barry can't purposely be ignorant since GOD FORCIBLY ORDAINED IT.
"If you desire ignorance then it is a waste of time for any of us to address you."
If his desire was to whole heartedly become a Calvinist it would STILL be a waste of time for you address him since you swear to God that only GOD can fix his view.
So either YOU THINK you are GOD or you certainly don't think God can fix him......needs your synergistic help obviously.
Every moment you reply proves synergism.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Well it doesn't fit your theology telling Nicodemus he must be born again as if he can do something about it ? Whats the point ? He could only be understanding what Jesus was saying if he was already born again . So my answer is that its something future that needs to happen to him . Just like the Aposties would have to go on to the day of pentacost to await the promise . Regeneration happened only after Jesus was glorified.
God has saved by grace since Adam and Eve fell. Keep making excuses for your teaching Barry. I'm sure merit-based person's will follow you.
Barry, I cannot make you less clueless or open your eyes for you. The text is plain to those who have eyes and it is heard by those who have ears.
We can dance all day about your horrendous grasp of adoption and when it came about. I have shown you all of Romans 8, which shows you what verse 23 means. Yet, you have a head of stone that will not accept the whole truth of all God's word. Even now you look for excuses to say the OT teaches something different than the NT. You pit God against himself in an attempt to show yourself greater in your thinking. Multiple people in the BB have openly taught you truth and you scorn them all as you dance the jesters dance. I will ignore you from this point forward as you scorn the teaching of God in order to embrace your own fantasy.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Yes absolutely. Its always through faith and not works . However salvation has been appropriated different at different times. For Noah it was build an Ark ect
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
I do not stand alone against the false teaching of Calvinism. If I didn't care about it ,I wouldn't bother to warn anyone .
This thread is not about 'Calvinism'. Have you answered the questions in post #(1)?
Quantrill
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Good point. I've lost track, my bad . Apologies. I hold to eternal security. The question for is not about freewill . This is what those who hold to loss of salvation make the case on ( in part ) . We have free will but God saves before we are glorified. This is not a violation of our freewill ,its a protection of it . For some it seems that we are only saved when we get to eternity . Which is true . But I do believe we recieve Eternal life the moment we believe . Those that hold to loss of salvation see eternal life is only given at the end. Or that the gift can be taken away . Interestingly they usually mis use " You have to endure till the end to be saved " verse . Which also calvinists mis use .
- Status