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Featured Loss of salvation---the Extent

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Quantrill, Oct 19, 2020.

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  1. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    shoveling coal....went walking...found a peanut....

    Thanks for stirring a memory.
     
    #61 SGO, Oct 22, 2020
  2. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    Yes, I agree. Just because one believes you can lose your salvation, doesn't mean they lose their salvation.

    But here again, my point is that if one believes we can lose our salvation here, then they must believe we can lose it there also. Because all the reasons our eternal state is secure, have been secured already for the believer now. See post #(13).

    We will never be in Heaven based on our righteousness. We will forever be 'saved sinners' declared righteous by God. Being the very righteousness of God. (2 Cor. 5:21)

    For me, this is security. God will never see me outside of Christ. But, that is true now also.

    Quantrill
     
    #62 Quantrill, Oct 22, 2020
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  3. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    When a person agrees with me, I tend not to argue with them. You are agreeing with me that we are secure in our salvation. Yet you don't want to agree with me.

    So, what is your problem?

    If you want to be happier in your verses of choice, that is fine by me. But I am looking at security from another angle. Why does that displease you?

    Quantrill
     
    #63 Quantrill, Oct 22, 2020
  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Alofa,
    Firstly, I'd like to clarify something in case you've never been made aware of it:

    Many of those that you call "Calvinist's" do not worship, nor do they even rely on, John Calvin or his teachings on any subject.
    They read and believe the word of God for themselves, and do not need men like John Calvin to teach them on any subject that is contained in God's precious word.

    Secondly, "Calvinists" do not teach "OSAS" ( "Once Saved, Always Saved" )…
    They believe and teach something that many might call, "ISAS", or "IF Saved, Always Saved";
    There is a vast difference between the two, that being that we see the Scriptures teaching that many shall profess to know Jesus Christ and call Him "Lord", but in works deny Him ( Titus 1:16 ), as well as not being known of Him ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).
    This is why I've suggested that you read Matthew 13 again ( where the Lord speaks of both the parables of the sower and the tares of the field ), and then develops them plainly for the reader to know and learn from.

    There are two types of believers...
    True and false.

    Jesus will not lose any of ones His Father has given to Him, but many who profess Christ will fall away in one way, shape or form.

    As for the subject of the OP, I concur...
    It is addressed to those who believe that salvation can be lost;
    Anyone keeping to topic should be letting those who actually believe that salvation can be lost ( which to me, is an impossibility ), answer it.

    Also, may I suggest that you be mindful of the Lord's commands regarding not speaking evil of men when you refer to others who hold differing beliefs about the Scriptures?
    Unless of course you don't care about those. :Unsure



    I wish you well sir.
     
    #64 Dave G, Oct 22, 2020
  5. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    That you weren't in him back before the world began.
     
    #65 George Antonios, Oct 22, 2020
  6. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Just to be clear, you're saying it IS rigged. Correct?
     
    #66 Alcott, Oct 22, 2020
  7. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Then explain how you were in him back before the world began.

    As for the game being rigged, I meant the interpretation. One rigs the game when one simply ignores the in him.
     
    #67 George Antonios, Oct 22, 2020
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    No. Wrong. I 'foreknow' what's going to come up in my garden because I planted the seed. That's a correct understanding of God's 'foreknowledge'.

    13 But he answered and said, Every plant which my heavenly Father planted not, shall be rooted up. Mt 15
     
    #68 kyredneck, Oct 22, 2020
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  9. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Classic example of a superficially patched up case by ignoring other scriptures:

    Jer 2:21 Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: HOW THEN art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?
     
    #69 George Antonios, Oct 22, 2020
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    "He chose us in him" before the foundation of the world.

    What's pesky about that?
     
    #70 AustinC, Oct 22, 2020
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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. Since it is God who solely does the saving and then solely does the keeping of whom He saves.
     
    #71 37818, Oct 22, 2020
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Your argument may be otherwise logically valid, but a false premise in the argument makes the whole argument false.
     
    #72 37818, Oct 22, 2020
  13. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    Of course.

    Quantrill
     
    #73 Quantrill, Oct 22, 2020
  14. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    I don't understand your confusion. Concerning 'before the world began' Christ did not yet exist. So, why doesn't that require 'explanation'? I told you already, (Acts. 15:18).

    We who are believers are of Him. We are of God. All those of God, are of God the moment they are born into the human race. Just because they don't know it, is immaterial to God. God knows it. God knows who they are. They are 'lost'. Why? Because they are of God. Those who are not of God, are not lost. They are of their father. They are of the world and satan.

    The 'game' is God's. God acts. He doesn't react.

    Quantrill
     
    #74 Quantrill, Oct 22, 2020
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  15. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    And yet you don't point our what that 'false premise' is. And yet you don't seek to disprove that 'false premise'.

    And yet you expect your opinion that the whole argument is false, to be accepted.

    If you're only trying to please yourself, that is enough. Trying to persuade others?.....I doubt it carries any weight.

    Quantrill
     
    #75 Quantrill, Oct 22, 2020
  16. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    I have no problem with that. So, what is your problem?

    Quantrill
     
    #76 Quantrill, Oct 22, 2020
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Problem with what?
     
    #77 37818, Oct 22, 2020
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Claiming Adam and Eve were in Heaven.
     
    #78 37818, Oct 22, 2020
  19. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    You. Were. Not. In. Him. Before. The. Foundation. Of. The. World.
     
    #79 George Antonios, Oct 22, 2020
  20. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    You. Were. Not. In. Him. Before. The. Foundation. Of. The. World.
     
    #80 George Antonios, Oct 22, 2020
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