Luke 16: the rich man in hades; the poor man with Abraham

[percho]

When Jesus said, in Luke 23:46, “Father, into Thy hands I commend My Spirit”, He believed His Spirit was going back to Heaven to be with the Father until the moment His Spirit would be joined with His body at His resurrection.

Jesus never ceased to be in conversation with the Father.

Jesus’ body went to the grave. His Spirit went into the hands of His Father.

Jesus in no way shape or form went to hell.

peace to you

Was, the spirit of Jesus, which returned/went to the hands of the Father, "that," *spirit of lives, below) which combined with the body of flesh, made of the dust of the ground, soul living ?

As stated in the following?

Gen 2:7 YLT And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life (spirit of lives), and the man becometh a living creature. (soul)

2:7 καὶ ἔπλασεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον χοῦν ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐνεφύσησεν εἰς τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ πνοὴν ζωῆς (spirit of lives) καὶ ἐγένετο ὁ ἄνθρωπος εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν (soul living)

 

[kyredneck]

When Jesus said, in Luke 23:46, “Father, into Thy hands I commend My Spirit”, He believed His Spirit was going back to Heaven to be with the Father until the moment His Spirit would be joined with His body at His resurrection.

who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 1 Pet 2:23

Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear, Heb 5:7

I believe the statement, 'nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt' (Mt 26:39), was Christ committing 'himself to him the judgeth righteously'. I believe that His request from the same verse, 'if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me', was a supplication to 'him that was able to save him from death'. I believe the fact that God raised Him from the dead shows both that His supplication was heard, and that God declared Christ to be righteous though the Jews judged Him to be worthy of death.

 

[canadyjd]

Was, the spirit of Jesus, which returned/went to the hands of the Father, "that," *spirit of lives, below) which combined with the body of flesh, made of the dust of the ground, soul living ?

As stated in the following?

Gen 2:7 YLT And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life (spirit of lives), and the man becometh a living creature. (soul)

2:7 καὶ ἔπλασεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον χοῦν ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐνεφύσησεν εἰς τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ πνοὴν ζωῆς (spirit of lives) καὶ ἐγένετο ὁ ἄνθρωπος εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν (soul living)

Jesus said, “Father, into Thy hands I commend My Spirit.”

So, His Spirit went to the Father in heaven. Jesus was fully human and fully God. The only thing that didn’t go to the Father was His physical body in the grave, not yet resurrected.

peace to you

 

[percho]

Jesus said, “Father, into Thy hands I commend My Spirit.”

So, His Spirit went to the Father in heaven. Jesus was fully human and fully God. The only thing that didn’t go to the Father was His physical body in the grave, not yet resurrected.

peace to you

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh (The Word made flesh, Jesus the Christ), justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Tim 3:16
And the Word was made flesh (<Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matt 1:23), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:14
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested (<in the flesh, born of woman, the Word made flesh), (WHY?) that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

Before the foundation of the world God was going to need be come in the flesh in order for the works of the Devil to be destroyed. IMHO

From Lev 17:11 Darby translation - for the soul of the flesh is in the blood;

That is exactly what the Word made flesh became. It is who the Son of God Jesus of Nazareth was. Flesh from the ground of the virgin with, spirit from God, Matt 1:20 for that which is conceived in her out of Spirit is holy - γὰρ ἐν αὐτῇ γεννηθὲν ἐκ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἁγίου

What is in the blood of which caused the flesh to be, soul, living? The spirit of, the Word made flesh, the Son of God was committed to the hands of the Father and Jesus was dead. The body was dead and the soul was no linger, living.

Consider please. Isa 53 12 YLT Therefore I give a portion to him among the many, And with the mighty he apportioneth spoil, Because that he exposed to death his soul, (BY committing the spirit of himself to the hands of the Father) And with transgressors he was numbered, And he the sin of many hath borne, And for transgressors he intercedeth.

BY committing the spirit of himself to the hands of the Father

IMHO That is, the faith, by which we have been saved? That is, the faith, by which we can be made the righteousness of God,
in Jesus.

 

[37818]

. . . Because that he exposed to death his soul, (BY committing the spirit of himself to the hands of the Father) . . .

There is more to this than you are understanding. The spirit which is returned to God. Genesis 2:7. Proverbs 20:27. Hebrews 4:12. Ecclesiastes 3:21. Ecclesiastes 12:7. James 2:26. Jesus taught killing of the body does not kill the soul, Matthew 10:28.

Jesus had two deaths on the cross. Isaiah 53:9. isaiah 53:12. Psalms 22:1 for the atonment. John 19:28. His soul then no longer dead. And His physical death for the resurrection, Acts 2:31-37.

 

[percho]

There is more to this than you are understanding. The spirit which is returned to God. Genesis 2:7. Proverbs 20:27. Hebrews 4:12. Ecclesiastes 3:21. Ecclesiastes 12:7. James 2:26. Jesus taught killing of the body does not kill the soul, Matthew 10:28.

Jesus had two deaths on the cross. Isaiah 53:9. isaiah 53:12. Psalms 22:1 for the atonment. John 19:28. His soul then no longer dead. And His physical death for the resurrection, Acts 2:31-37.

NKJV Acts 2:27
For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
V 29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. “Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,[fn] (NU-Text omits according to the flesh,)
“he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.

Now what is listed as concerning the resurrection. To make to stand. ἀνάστασις anástasis, an-as'-tas-is; from G450; a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death
1. the soul not being left to hades
2. the flesh not seeing corruption

Show me from scripture how this could refer to any time span, other that from the moment Jesus committed his sprit unto the hands of the Father to the moment the Father raised him out of the dead.

Was the status of the soul of Jesus anything than what is stated of the souls under the alter of Rev 6:9-11 slain, rest a little longer. What may I ask will bring those slain souls, dead, out of rest? By chance will it be resurrection?

In Luke 16 was Lazarus/Eliezer resurrected? Send Lazarus, as though one rose from the dead.
Was the rich man being resurrected? Tongue eyes finger

 

[37818]

NKJV Acts 2:27
For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
V 29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. “Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,[fn] (NU-Text omits according to the flesh,)
“he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.

Now what is listed as concerning the resurrection. To make to stand. ἀνάστασις anástasis, an-as'-tas-is; from G450; a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death
1. the soul not being left to hades
2. the flesh not seeing corruption

Show me from scripture how this could refer to any time span, other that from the moment Jesus committed his sprit unto the hands of the Father to the moment the Father raised him out of the dead.

Was the status of the soul of Jesus anything than what is stated of the souls under the alter of Rev 6:9-11 slain, rest a little longer. What may I ask will bring those slain souls, dead, out of rest? By chance will it be resurrection?

In Luke 16 was Lazarus/Eliezer resurrected? Send Lazarus, as though one rose from the dead.
Was the rich man being resurrected? Tongue eyes finger

The correct resurrection reference is Acts of the Apostles 2:27-31. Jesus' soul is not dead when He physically died. Remenber the death of the body is not the death of the soul, Matthew 10:28. Get that truth.

The atonement was completed before Jesus physically died, John 19:28, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . ." That word translated as "accomplished" is the very same word translated as "It is finished." Meaning "Paid in full." The atonement was finished before Jesus phyically died.

The resurrection from the dead is the proof the atonement was completed before He phyisially died. 1 Corinthians 15:17, "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."

 

[percho]

The correct resurrection reference is Acts of the Apostles 2:27-31. Jesus' soul is not dead when He physically died. Remenber the death of the body is not the death of the soul, Matthew 10:28. Get that truth.

The atonement was completed before Jesus physically died, John 19:28, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . ." That word translated as "accomplished" is the very same word translated as "It is finished." Meaning "Paid in full." The atonement was finished before Jesus phyically died.

The resurrection from the dead is the proof the atonement was completed before He phyisially died. 1 Corinthians 15:17, "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."

Lev 17:11 Darby for the soul of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it (the blood of Jesus) to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul.
NASB20 ‘For the [fn] (soul) life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the [fn] (soul) life that makes atonement.’

When exactly was, the life of the flesh, in the blood, given upon the altar? When exactly was, the soul living, of the flesh, given upon the altar?
When Jesus dismissed his spirit and breathed forth the spirit of himself unto the hands of the Father.

That was when the atonement was made.

Twelve questions, please answer all twelve.

Ten minutes after Jesus breathed forth the spirit unto the hands of the Father;
Where was the Spirit of Jesus?
Where was the soul of Jesus?
Where was the body of Jesus?

Ten hours after Jesus breathed forth the spirit unto the hands of the Father;
Where was the spirit of Jesus?
Where was the soul of Jesus?
Where was the body of Jesus?

Sixty hours after Jesus breathed the spirit unto the hands of the Father;
Where was the spirit of Jesus?
Where was the soul of Jesus?
Where was the body of Jesus?

Ninety six hours after Jesus breathed forth the spirit unto the hands of the Father;
Where was the spirit of Jesus?
Where was the soul of Jesus?
Where was the body of Jesus?

According to the word of God?

In the hands of the Father
In Hades
On the cross

In the hands of the Father
In Hades
In the tomb of Joseph

In the hands of the Father
In Hades
In the tomb of Joseph

Back with Jesus
Meeting with the disciples sans Thomas
Meeting with the disciples sans Thomas
IMHO

 

[37818]

Lev 17:11 Darby for the soul of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it (the blood of Jesus) to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul.
NASB20 ‘For the [fn] (soul) life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the [fn] (soul) life that makes atonement.’

When exactly was, the life of the flesh, in the blood, given upon the altar? When exactly was, the soul living, of the flesh, given upon the altar?
When Jesus dismissed his spirit and breathed forth the spirit of himself unto the hands of the Father.

That was when the atonement was made.

Twelve questions, please answer all twelve.

Ten minutes after Jesus breathed forth the spirit unto the hands of the Father;
Where was the Spirit of Jesus?
Where was the soul of Jesus?
Where was the body of Jesus?

Ten hours after Jesus breathed forth the spirit unto the hands of the Father;
Where was the spirit of Jesus?
Where was the soul of Jesus?
Where was the body of Jesus?

Sixty hours after Jesus breathed the spirit unto the hands of the Father;
Where was the spirit of Jesus?
Where was the soul of Jesus?
Where was the body of Jesus?

Ninety six hours after Jesus breathed forth the spirit unto the hands of the Father;
Where was the spirit of Jesus?
Where was the soul of Jesus?
Where was the body of Jesus?

According to the word of God?

In the hands of the Father
In Hades
On the cross

In the hands of the Father
In Hades
In the tomb of Joseph

In the hands of the Father
In Hades
In the tomb of Joseph

Back with Jesus
Meeting with the disciples sans Thomas
Meeting with the disciples sans Thomas
IMHO

Which of those questions in your post do you want me to address first.

I did give you my understanding.

So what do you understand was "paid in full" prior to Jesus' phycical death per John 19:28 and John 19:30?

 

[kyredneck]

esus said, “Father, into Thy hands I commend My Spirit.”

So, His Spirit went to the Father in heaven.

Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:9

.....being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, 1 Pet 3:18,19

 

[canadyjd]

Lev 17:11 Darby for the soul of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it (the blood of Jesus) to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul.
NASB20 ‘For the [fn] (soul) life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the [fn] (soul) life that makes atonement.’

When exactly was, the life of the flesh, in the blood, given upon the altar? When exactly was, the soul living, of the flesh, given upon the altar?
When Jesus dismissed his spirit and breathed forth the spirit of himself unto the hands of the Father.

That was when the atonement was made.

Twelve questions, please answer all twelve.

Ten minutes after Jesus breathed forth the spirit unto the hands of the Father;
Where was the Spirit of Jesus?
Where was the soul of Jesus?
Where was the body of Jesus?

Ten hours after Jesus breathed forth the spirit unto the hands of the Father;
Where was the spirit of Jesus?
Where was the soul of Jesus?
Where was the body of Jesus?

Sixty hours after Jesus breathed the spirit unto the hands of the Father;
Where was the spirit of Jesus?
Where was the soul of Jesus?
Where was the body of Jesus?

Ninety six hours after Jesus breathed forth the spirit unto the hands of the Father;
Where was the spirit of Jesus?
Where was the soul of Jesus?
Where was the body of Jesus?

According to the word of God?

In the hands of the Father
In Hades
On the cross

In the hands of the Father
In Hades
In the tomb of Joseph

In the hands of the Father
In Hades
In the tomb of Joseph

Back with Jesus
Meeting with the disciples sans Thomas
Meeting with the disciples sans Thomas
IMHO

I see what you are saying, but disagree.

I do not believe a human being has three parts (body, spirit, soul) but rather exists as body and spirit.

The word “soul” is used, at times, to refer to the whole person (body, spirit) and at other times “soul” is used interchangeably with “spirit”.

Peace to you

 

[robycop3]

Actually, the entire temporary abode of the dead is hades. It's divided into "paradise" & "torments". Jesus was in paradise 3 days & nights.

Some versions incorrectly render hades as "hell". Hell is the lake of fire.

 

[percho]

I see what you are saying, but disagree.

I do not believe a human being has three parts (body, spirit, soul) but rather exists as body and spirit.

The word “soul” is used, at times, to refer to the whole person (body, spirit) and at other times “soul” is used interchangeably with “spirit”.

Peace to you

I actually agree with you. I believe from Gen 2:7 shows the body made from the dust of the ground with the breath of the spirit of lives from God caused that made from the ground to become soul, living.

But once the soul becomes as living it begins to store data and form as a person with character and memories. I believe once the spirit departs the body that character no longed adds to and nothing of it departs from that person until it be made alive again by spirit. It is in a state of rest as the souls under the alter in Rev 6.

 

[percho]

Which of those questions in your post do you want me to address first.

I did give you my understanding.

So what do you understand was "paid in full" prior to Jesus' phycical death per John 19:28 and John 19:30?

And it was, as it were, the sixth hour, and darkness came over all the land till the ninth hour, and the sun was darkened, and the vail of the sanctuary was rent in the midst, and having cried with a loud voice, Jesus said, 'Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;' and these things having said, he breathed forth the spirit. Luke 23:44-46 YLT

John 19:28-30 YLT After this, Jesus knowing that all things now have been finished, that the Writing may be fulfilled, saith, 'I thirst;' a vessel, therefore, was placed full of vinegar, and they having filled a sponge with vinegar, and having put it around a hyssop stalk, did put it to his mouth; when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar (so the writing could be fulfilled), he said, 'It hath been finished;' and having bowed the head, gave up the spirit.

Now I assume we can both agree that John, gave up the spirit and Luke, he breathed forth the spirit, took place at the same moment?

Now we have to put, it hath been finished, either before or after, 'Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;'. Personally I believe it probably was before but even then I also think it would have been continuous; It is finished, Father unto your hands I commit my spirit and he dies.

I do not know that I would consider that as being time span two deaths. ----- Consider.

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matt 12:40 KJV

Jesus relates this three days and three nights to Jonah. I believe the Son of Man to be the living soul Jesus of Nazareth, Now consider Jonah. Where does Jonah consider himself to have been for three days and three nights?

Jonah 1:17 YLT And Jehovah appointeth a great fish to swallow up Jonah, and Jonah is in the bowels of the fish three days and three nights.

2:2 And he saith: I called, because of my distress, to Jehovah, And He doth answer me, From the belly of sheol I have cried, Thou hast heard my voice.

From, Greek, Hades


As Kyredneck would add

27 And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
32 And they said one to another, Was not our heart burning within us, while he spake to us in the way, while he opened to us the scriptures? Lu 24

 

[canadyjd]

I actually agree with you. I believe from Gen 2:7 shows the body made from the dust of the ground with the breath of the spirit of lives from God caused that made from the ground to become soul, living.

But once the soul becomes as living it begins to store data and form as a person with character and memories. I believe once the spirit departs the body that character no longed adds to and nothing of it departs from that person until it be made alive again by spirit. It is in a state of rest as the souls under the alter in Rev 6.

The souls under the altar are aware of their circumstances.

peace to you

 

[37818]

And it was, as it were, the sixth hour, and darkness came over all the land till the ninth hour, and the sun was darkened, and the vail of the sanctuary was rent in the midst, and having cried with a loud voice, Jesus said, 'Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;' and these things having said, he breathed forth the spirit. Luke 23:44-46 YLT

John 19:28-30 YLT After this, Jesus knowing that all things now have been finished, that the Writing may be fulfilled, saith, 'I thirst;' a vessel, therefore, was placed full of vinegar, and they having filled a sponge with vinegar, and having put it around a hyssop stalk, did put it to his mouth; when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar (so the writing could be fulfilled), he said, 'It hath been finished;' and having bowed the head, gave up the spirit.

Now I assume we can both agree that John, gave up the spirit and Luke, he breathed forth the spirit, took place at the same moment?

Now we have to put, it hath been finished, either before or after, 'Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;'. Personally I believe it probably was before but even then I also think it would have been continuous; It is finished, Father unto your hands I commit my spirit and he dies.

I do not know that I would consider that as being time span two deaths. ----- Consider.

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matt 12:40 KJV

Jesus relates this three days and three nights to Jonah. I believe the Son of Man to be the living soul Jesus of Nazareth, Now consider Jonah. Where does Jonah consider himself to have been for three days and three nights?

Jonah 1:17 YLT And Jehovah appointeth a great fish to swallow up Jonah, and Jonah is in the bowels of the fish three days and three nights.

2:2 And he saith: I called, because of my distress, to Jehovah, And He doth answer me, From the belly of sheol I have cried, Thou hast heard my voice.

From, Greek, Hades


As Kyredneck would add

27 And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
32 And they said one to another, Was not our heart burning within us, while he spake to us in the way, while he opened to us the scriptures? Lu 24

What I need to understand. Do you understand the soul and spirit to be distinct or the same thing? I understand them to be distinct.

 

[37818]

I understand them to be distinct.

1 Thessalonians 5:23, "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole
spirit and
soul and
body
be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[robycop3]

The whole place is hades; it's divided into 'torments' and 'paradise'. "Abe's bosom" is simply another term for paradise. Obviously, not even the soul of Abe would have room for too many at once to lean against his chest.

 

[Dave G]

Hell is the lake of fire.

" And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." ( Revelation 20:14 )?

 

[Dave G]

I do not believe a human being has three parts (body, spirit, soul) but rather exists as body and spirit.

The word “soul” is used, at times, to refer to the whole person (body, spirit) and at other times “soul” is used interchangeably with “spirit”.

" And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." ( 1 Thessalonians 5:23 )?