Mary Sightings in History

[Steadfast Fred]

Mary was not the 'mother of God'.

God existed before the first man was even created. For Mary to be His mother, she would have to have existed before Him.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Mary was not the 'mother of God'.

God existed before the first man was even created. For Mary to be His mother, she would have to have existed before Him.

You misunderstand the common use and meaning of the term, which is that since Jesus was both God and man, and Mary bore Jesus, she can thus rightly be called the mother of God. It has nothing to do with existence and time.

Personally, I wouldn't use the term; I think the use of it contributed to unbiblical and superstitious views of Mary.

 

[reformed_baptist]

You misunderstand the common use and meaning of the term, which is that since Jesus was both God and man, and Mary bore Jesus, she can thus rightly be called the mother of God. It has nothing to do with existence and time.

Personally, I wouldn't use the term; I think the use of it contributed to unbiblical and superstitious views of Mary.

Not to mention great schism under the Nestorian controversy

 

[annsni]

I’m not sure what you are referring to as “God’s word. The Bible? If so, I agree that it is. But so are the teachings of the OHCAC, and they never contradict each other. Don’t forget, the entire New Testament was penned by Catholic scribes and was complied as the canon by Catholic councils.

Why do you suggest that I think something that I just denied in the previous post? Remember, I said, “For sure, the title "Mother of God" does not mean that Mary came before God or that she is older than God. Mary is a creature like the rest of us.” It’s not that hard, so why can’t you wrap your mind around it? Maybe this will simplify it for you:

Mary is the mother of Jesus.

Jesus is God.

Therefore, Mary is the mother of God.

As for Nestorianism, his name was Nestorius, and it’s impossible to debate you without debating him because you appear to have identical beliefs. These beliefs were found to be heretical at the first council of Ephesus. I will repeat, Jesus is not a split personality. He is fully God and fully man, not half God and half man. Mary was His mother, not just the mother of His humanity. To say otherwise is about as absurd as saying your mother is the mother of your body but not your soul. Would you ever refer to your mother as “mother of my body?”

In your final volley you once again ignored what I said in my previous post and implied things that you probably wish I had said. Please note that I never called Mary “Co Redeemer” or “Mediatrix.” Nor did I elevate her to the level of God. I plainly stated that she is a creature like the rest of us (Creature: one who is created). So why do you persist in falsely characterizing what I am saying?

That is heresy. Mary was not the mother of God. She was the mother of Jesus. If she was the mother of God, then she would have eternally existed but she did not. That would meant that God had a beginning - a birth. He did not.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I am in agreement with Adam Clarke on this one. To say that Mary is the 'mother of God' is blasphemy.

 

[Walter]

That is heresy. Mary was not the mother of God. She was the mother of Jesus. If she was the mother of God, then she would have eternally existed but she did not. That would meant that God had a beginning - a birth. He did not.

Would 'Theotokos' be less objectionable to you? Jesus was either God or He wasn't. Was Jesus God in Mary's womb or not?

 

[Walter]

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, His name shall be called Emmanuel (i.e., God with us)" (Is. 7, 14 [Douai]);

"For a child has been born for us, a son given to us; authority rests upon his shoulders; and he is named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" (Is. 9, 6);

"And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women" (St. Luke 1, 28 [Douai]);

"(St. Elizabeth to Our Lady) And why has this happened to me, that the mother of my Lord comes to me?" (St. Luke 1, 43);

"...for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed" (St. Luke 1, 48);

"...Woman, behold your son...(Son) behold your mother" (St. John 19, 26-27);

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Who is my mother? - Jesus; Matthew 12:48

Jesus says those who do His will are his mother and brethren. Is it possible that Mary is out of the will of God? Could that be the reason Jesus ignores her plea for an audience with Him?

The author David wrote in Psalm 66:18, If I regard iniquity in mine heart, the LORD will not hear me. Was Mary an iniquituous woman and thus the Lord "would not hear" her?

Why did He never call her mother in Scripture?

The woman that the Catholics exalt was never identified as 'the mother of God" in Scripture. Scripture seems to suggest that she was far from that symbol of purity and adoration that Catholics and Catholic apologists make her out to be.

 

[Yeshua1]

That is heresy. Mary was not the mother of God. She was the mother of Jesus. If she was the mother of God, then she would have eternally existed but she did not. That would meant that God had a beginning - a birth. He did not.

She was the One to bear and bring foeth the Son of God, but she was the physical Mother to JUST His humanity, God was his eternal Father to his diety!

mary Bore in her God the Son, who became flesh and lived among us, but she did NOT give birth to the trinity!

 

[Zenas]

Who is my mother? - Jesus; Matthew 12:48

Jesus says those who do His will are his mother and brethren. Is it possible that Mary is out of the will of God? Could that be the reason Jesus ignores her plea for an audience with Him?

The author David wrote in Psalm 66:18, If I regard iniquity in mine heart, the LORD will not hear me. Was Mary an iniquituous woman and thus the Lord "would not hear" her?

Why did He never call her mother in Scripture?

The woman that the Catholics exalt was never identified as 'the mother of God" in Scripture. Scripture seems to suggest that she was far from that symbol of purity and adoration that Catholics and Catholic apologists make her out to be.

Fred, you're not being very steadfast, suggesting Mary was out of the will of God and that she was an iniquitous woman. Would you say that of Moses, Peter, John, Mary Magdalene? Probably not. When you come face to face with the BVM in Heaven, and she is wearing a crown, it will certainly be awkward for you.

As for why Jesus never called her "Mother," He knew she was the second Eve, who is called "the woman" in Genesis 3:15. Furthermore, John refers to her as the "woman" in Revelation 12.

 

[Zenas]

That is heresy. Mary was not the mother of God. She was the mother of Jesus. If she was the mother of God, then she would have eternally existed but she did not. That would meant that God had a beginning - a birth. He did not.

Ann, you need to read up on the First Council of Ephesus. You’re a smart woman, much too smart to be posting things that make you look ignorant.

 

[The Biblicist]

Ann, you need to read up on the First Council of Ephesus. You’re a smart woman, much too smart to be posting things that make you look ignorant.

You will not find the Greek term "theotokos" in scripture. Nor is Mary the mother of God because God has no Mother but is everlasting to everlasting.

What Mary conceived was not God but a HUMAN body with a HUMAN Nature and it was that humanity that The Word of God "tabernacled" in or "TOOK UPON HIMSELF" which came from the humanity of Mary.

Hence, the Deity of Christ is never once mentioned or described as being "born" but a "son was GIVEN and a child WAS BORN." Mary is the mother of what was "born" not the Mother of the Son which was "given" as she did not conceive deity but conceived humanity and Diety "TOOK UPON HIMSELF" that humanity and TABERNACLED in it.

That does not mean I deny the hpostatic union but only deny that conception is when that union occurred. It occurred sometime before birth as deity was never "conceived" by even God much less Mary.

 

[Zenas]

You will not find the Greek term "theotokos" in scripture. Nor is Mary the mother of God because God has no Mother but is everlasting to everlasting.

What Mary conceived was not God but a HUMAN body with a HUMAN Nature and it was that humanity that The Word of God "tabernacled" in or "TOOK UPON HIMSELF" which came from the humanity of Mary.

Hence, the Deity of Christ is never once mentioned or described as being "born" but a "son was GIVEN and a child WAS BORN." Mary is the mother of what was "born" not the Mother of the Son which was "given" as she did not conceive deity but conceived humanity and Diety "TOOK UPON HIMSELF" that humanity and TABERNACLED in it.

That does not mean I deny the hpostatic union but only deny that conception is when that union occurred. It occurred sometime before birth as deity was never "conceived" by even God much less Mary.

Biblicist, I make the same suggestion to you as I made to Ann, and for the same reason.

For what it's worth, Mary conceived the Son of God. Or are you suggesting that the father of Jesus was a Roman soldier? That theory is making the rounds again now.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

As I said on another thread, some here are committing an ancient heresy and don't even realize it. I'm not going to call it heresy, but the ancient church did.

 

[annsni]

You will not find the Greek term "theotokos" in scripture. Nor is Mary the mother of God because God has no Mother but is everlasting to everlasting.

What Mary conceived was not God but a HUMAN body with a HUMAN Nature and it was that humanity that The Word of God "tabernacled" in or "TOOK UPON HIMSELF" which came from the humanity of Mary.

Hence, the Deity of Christ is never once mentioned or described as being "born" but a "son was GIVEN and a child WAS BORN." Mary is the mother of what was "born" not the Mother of the Son which was "given" as she did not conceive deity but conceived humanity and Diety "TOOK UPON HIMSELF" that humanity and TABERNACLED in it.

That does not mean I deny the hpostatic union but only deny that conception is when that union occurred. It occurred sometime before birth as deity was never "conceived" by even God much less Mary.

Wholly agree! Again, if Mary was the mother of God, then that would make her deity and there is nothing in Scripture to support her deity, that she always existed nor that she is God's mom.

 

[Walter]

As I said on another thread, some here are committing an ancient heresy and don't even realize it. I'm not going to call it heresy, but the ancient church did.

You nailed it, Bishop! This is an ancient heresy that is raising it's ugly head again! You cannot divide Jesus' humanity from His Divinity! That was EXACTLY why the term 'Mother of God' came about in the first place. Most Baptist hate the term because they feel it exalts Mary and they also teach that is why the term was created in the first place. Both are Baptist myths.

 

[Walter]

Who is my mother? - Jesus; Matthew 12:48

Jesus says those who do His will are his mother and brethren. Is it possible that Mary is out of the will of God? Could that be the reason Jesus ignores her plea for an audience with Him?

The author David wrote in Psalm 66:18, If I regard iniquity in mine heart, the LORD will not hear me. Was Mary an iniquituous woman and thus the Lord "would not hear" her?

Why did He never call her mother in Scripture?

The woman that the Catholics exalt was never identified as 'the mother of God" in Scripture. Scripture seems to suggest that she was far from that symbol of purity and adoration that Catholics and Catholic apologists make her out to be.

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, His name shall be called Emmanuel (i.e., God with us)" (Is. 7, 14 [Douai]);

So when did Jesus become God? Did Mary conceive Him before He assumed His Divinity?

 

[DHK]

Biblicist, I make the same suggestion to you as I made to Ann, and for the same reason.

For what it's worth, Mary conceived the Son of God. Or are you suggesting that the father of Jesus was a Roman soldier? That theory is making the rounds again now.

Are you suggesting that "Ste" Anne is the grandmother of "God."?
What about her mother, and then her mother, and on and on?
Where does the Immaculate Conception stop, for that is what is tied in here. According to RCC theology the "mother of God" could not have been stained with sin, and therefore was immaculately conceived sin. But then they have a problem with Anne, the grandmother of God, so-called.

 

[Fred's Wife]

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, His name shall be called Emmanuel (i.e., God with us)" (Is. 7, 14 [Douai]);

So when did Jesus become God? Did Mary conceive Him before He assumed His Divinity?

Jesus Christ is the ETERNAL SON OF GOD! He has NO beginning and has NO ending...the Alpha and Omega. Mary is NOT the mother of His deity....deity has NO mother. Mary did NOT conceive His deity.

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS

Note: That verse (31) does not say that Mary would "bring forth God", but it says that Mary would "bring forth a son".

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Mary is the mother of Jesus' earthly human existence...not His eternal deity as the Son of God.

 

[Zenas]

Are you suggesting that "Ste" Anne is the grandmother of "God."?
What about her mother, and then her mother, and on and on?
Where does the Immaculate Conception stop, for that is what is tied in here. According to RCC theology the "mother of God" could not have been stained with sin, and therefore was immaculately conceived sin. But then they have a problem with Anne, the grandmother of God, so-called.

God removed the stain of original sin from Mary at the time of her conception. He could have done it at any generation, but He chose to do it with her. And it just makes sense because Mary is the only one who needed to provide a pure genetic pool, unstained with sin, to her child. Doing it with St. Anne, and on up the line would have been a little redundant.