Yep, the ancient heresy is back, at least on the Baptist Board.
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Mary Sightings in History
- Thread starter saturneptune
- Start date
Simply conjecture and opinion. Can this be backed up with Scripture?
Fred's Wife
Member
The "ancient heresy" is the RCC's false teaching that Mary is the "mother of God" and the RCC's (and EOC) idolatrous veneration of her....called Mariolatry.
No, the ancient heresy is Nestorianism. Have you ever read the proceedings of the First Council of Ephesus? "Yes" or "No" will be the appropriate answer here.
Yes or no, was Jesus God? Yes or no, was Mary Jesus' mother? Mary was the 'mother of God'! Look at the TEACHING before you call it false. You just refuse to do so because ANYTHING Catholic MUST be heresy, right?
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Boy, you got that right!
Mary supplied the "humanity" of Jesus; God supplied His deity--as only God can do. This was a miraculous birth as only God could perform--without the use of a mortal man. So that makes Mary the mother of Jesus the boy and man, and God is His Father in the sense that Christ is God.
The only thing I have never understood is that since his mother was human and not sinless any more than any person is sinless, then why didn't He have a sin nature? NO woman is sinless, and neither was Mary.
The only thing I have never understood is that since his mother was human and not sinless any more than any person is sinless, then why didn't He have a sin nature? NO woman is sinless, and neither was Mary.
Wow! Do y'all know what Nestorianism is? It 'emphasizes the disunion between the human and divine natures of Jesus. Nestorius' teachings brought him into conflict with some other prominent church leaders, most notably Cyril of Alexandria, who criticized especially his rejection of the title Theotokos-Mother of God-for the Virgin Mary. Nestorius and his teachings were eventually condemned as heretical at the First Council of Ephesus in 431 and the Council of Chalcedon in 451',
The sin nature, or "Adamic nature" is passed on through the man. Thus it was necessary for Christ to be born of a virgin that he would not inherit a sin nature. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit (sinless), and not of a man (a sinner), and thus did not have a sin nature. He came from the seed of a woman (Gen.3:15), not the seed of a man. Even as far back as the time of Adam and Eve they were told of the miracle of the virgin birth, though they may not have understood it all.
You're right, it doesn't make sense unless Mary was sinless. And I see no problem with that. Your statement that no woman is sinless is pure conjecture, and simply wrong.
Let me try to make clear what Mother of God does not imply.
1. That Mary came before God.
2. That Mary is the Mother of the whole Trinity (except the Son).
This was the Theotokos or Mother of God does say.
1. Mary gave birth to Word incarnate, Jesus Christ. Since Jesus' own flesh comes from his own Mother.
2. Mary is the Mother of God in a sense that Jesus is both God and Man. Mary being the Mother of Jesus makes her the Mother of God, the Son, Second Person of the Trinity.
Any Baptist on this board that denies Mary as the Mother of God only lessens the divine nature of Jesus Christ Himself. The title only invokes Jesus Christ because the Person of Christ is defined here.
Some of the Baptists on this board are very much becoming Neo-Nestorianism whether they like it or not. In plain English, they are heretics who deny Jesus' divinity.
1. That Mary came before God.
2. That Mary is the Mother of the whole Trinity (except the Son).
This was the Theotokos or Mother of God does say.
1. Mary gave birth to Word incarnate, Jesus Christ. Since Jesus' own flesh comes from his own Mother.
2. Mary is the Mother of God in a sense that Jesus is both God and Man. Mary being the Mother of Jesus makes her the Mother of God, the Son, Second Person of the Trinity.
Any Baptist on this board that denies Mary as the Mother of God only lessens the divine nature of Jesus Christ Himself. The title only invokes Jesus Christ because the Person of Christ is defined here.
Some of the Baptists on this board are very much becoming Neo-Nestorianism whether they like it or not. In plain English, they are heretics who deny Jesus' divinity.
Fred's Wife
Member
Mary was NOT the mother of God.....that is heresy!
Heresy is heresy, whether it comes from the RCC or somewhere else.
Better get back to the Scriptures, Walter. That is where you will find the TRUTH.
Ancient Church and tradition is not inspired and full of the sources of myriads of all kinds of heresies. We have the inspired Word of God to establish us in doctrine.
1Tim.3:15 says nothing about Mary. Nilch! Nada! Zero!
You fail completely.
Fred's Wife
Member
Hogwash! :tonofbricks:
You can now step off your soap-box and stop with the false allegations.
No one here denies the deity of Christ.
Mary was a sinner just as much a sinner like any drunkard or adulterer, for there is no difference in sin before God. He who breaks one of God's command is just as guilty of breaking them all (James 2:10).
Mary admitted she was a sinner.
Mary brought a sin offering to the priest when Christ was circumcised.
Mary admitted her need of a Savior.
Mary rejoiced in "God her Savior."
Thus this vile sinner, Mary, was used of God to be a vessel to bear the human fleshly body of Christ, and that is all. There are many and have been many in history that have been used of God in varied and different ways. This was just one way in which Mary was used. She gave birth to the earthly body in which Christ was born, the body that the Book of Hebrews says: "A body thou hast prepared for me."
Christ was God, is God, always will be God. He never lost his divinity for one millisecond--not even in the womb. He always retained his deity, just as Mary always retained her sin nature.
Why do you try to limit the power of God, just because you can't understand how Christ came into the world? Is the God you worship weak, anemic, powerless, because he can't do what he promised to do. Therefore you make up stories that aren't in the Bible.
Virgin Birth allowed Jesus to bypass being tainted and corrupted by the sinful blood of mary! God was his father, mary provided humanity to Him, without her own sin!
Well, if that is the best you can do, ok! What I notice is you are real quick to simply label something 'heresy' or 'hogwash' and short on explaining why that is. You simply hate the term 'mother of God' because you think it came about to elevate Mary and you won't even try to understand why the Church found it necessary to even define the term. Here is more of what you will probably label hogwash. In Biblical typology (I know, Baptists have precious little use for typology), in the Old Testament, the Ark of the Covenant is venerated by the Jews. The Ark contained the staff of Aaron, Manna, and Ten Commandments, the word of God; which God's own finger wrote to Moses. In the NT, Mary is a type of Ark. She carried Bread of Life, High Priest, and Word made flesh Jesus Christ.
I already posted the prophecy foretelling of a virgin who shall give birth to a male child, and he shall be called Emmanuel, God is with us. In order to do so, the mother of Jesus must be pure. For whatever God touches becomes sacred or Holy, does it not? Jesus' flesh himself is from Mary. If Mary had sin, it would mean Satan conquered Mary by having her sin. She never sinned. She is always the faithful "handmaid of the Lord." The Bible calls Mary, Blessed, and she is Full of Grace. If you are Full of Grace there is no room for anything else! Before you quote 'for ALL have sinned', let's ask ourselves, are there any exceptions to this (besides Mary) found in the bible. What about Enoch?