Merited or not merited

[37818]

Do you agree salvation is not merited in anyway.
Or
Salvation must be merited in some way to be saved.

 

[Salty]

On the surface - we have no merit-
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned and come short.....

 

[37818]

On the surface - we have no merit-
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned and come short.....

A gift is not merited. If merited it is not a gift but earned/deserved. A gift is paid for by the giver. What is paid is not the receiver of the gift, merit, earned.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Romans 11:6

And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work

 

[agedman]

Romans 11:6

And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work

Interesting that you post this verse considering your declarations.

Here is the first part:

5So then also, in the present time, there has been a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, it is no longer from works; otherwise grace no longer would be grace.
What then? What Israel is seeking, this it has not obtained, but the elect obtained it. And the rest were hardened, 8as it has been written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to see, and ears not to hear, unto this very day​

So, is the verse you quoted given to only the Jews, or does it also pertain to the Gentiles?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Interesting that you post this verse considering your declarations.

Here is the first part:

5So then also, in the present time, there has been a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, it is no longer from works; otherwise grace no longer would be grace.
What then? What Israel is seeking, this it has not obtained, but the elect obtained it. And the rest were hardened, 8as it has been written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to see, and ears not to hear, unto this very day​

So, is the verse you quoted given to only the Jews, or does it also pertain to the Gentiles?

why should my quoting this verse surprise you? Did you not read my post, The Bible Way of Salvation , point 2?

Like I said before, Romans 9-11 is mainly about the election and priviliged position that Israel enjoyed, under the Old Covanant. Romans 11:2 reads, "God didn’t reject his people, which he foreknew. Or don’t you know what the Scripture says about Elijah? How he pleads with God against Israel". HIS People are here the Jews. the "Election" that is in verses 5-6 and elsewhere in these chapters, are the JEWS. All of Israel were not automatically "elect", because of their national status, being born a "Jew". They had to be "born again", and trust the Lord for their personal salvation, in "repentance and faith". This is the same for today, only now the non Jews, the Gentile nations are also "granted repentance" for salvation, and after they "repent and believe", and are born-again, are added to the Body of Jesus Christ.

 

[agedman]

why should my quoting this verse surprise you? Did you not read my post, The Bible Way of Salvation , point 2?

Like I said before, Romans 9-11 is mainly about the election and priviliged position that Israel enjoyed, under the Old Covanant. Romans 11:2 reads, "God didn’t reject his people, which he foreknew. Or don’t you know what the Scripture says about Elijah? How he pleads with God against Israel". HIS People are here the Jews. the "Election" that is in verses 5-6 and elsewhere in these chapters, are the JEWS. All of Israel were not automatically "elect", because of their national status, being born a "Jew". They had to be "born again", and trust the Lord for their personal salvation, in "repentance and faith". This is the same for today, only now the non Jews, the Gentile nations are also "granted repentance" for salvation, and after they "repent and believe", and are born-again, are added to the Body of Jesus Christ.

I started a thread concerning this very thinking.

I am looking at a. contrary opinion from Hebrews.

 

[37818]

The fact that salvation is not merited in any way goes to show God's chosing those whom He saves is not in any way arbitrary. Matthew 7:21-22 as a case in point, that salvation is in being according to God's will that salvation is not in any way a matter of merit.

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you agree salvation is not merited in anyway.
Or
Salvation must be merited in some way to be saved.

Rome says must be merited!

 

[tyndale1946]

Rome says must be merited!

Romans says this:

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Its not Merit, its MERCY!... Brother Glen

 

[1689Dave]

The fact that salvation is not merited in any way goes to show God's chosing those whom He saves is not in any way arbitrary. Matthew 7:21-22 as a case in point, that salvation is in being according to God's will that salvation is not in any way a matter of merit.

If God is no respecter of persons, election is purely arbitrary. That is, you had nothing to do with your damnation in Adam. You had nothing to do with your salvation in Christ. All you can say is "If you believe in Christ, God saved you".

 

[Revmitchell]

A gift is not merited. If merited it is not a gift but earned/deserved. A gift is paid for by the giver. What is paid is not the receiver of the gift, merit, earned.

Reaching out and receiving the gift in response is not merit.

 

[1689Dave]

Reaching out and receiving the gift in response is not merit.

It means you save yourself.

 

[Revmitchell]

It means you save yourself.

no it doesn’t when someone gives you a gift and you reach out and receive it from them do we also say they gave the gift to themselves

 

[1689Dave]

no it doesn’t when someone gives you a gift and you reach out and receive it from them do we also say they gave the gift to themselves

But if you don't you are not saved. This is works salvation. Grace salvation happens when God creates a new heart in you, often against your will like with Paul. And your new nature then causes you to believe and repent based on that experience.

 

[Revmitchell]

But if you don't you are not saved. This is works salvation. Grace salvation happens when God creates a new heart in you, often against your will like with Paul. And your new nature then causes you to believe and repent based on that experience.

if you don’t reach out and receive the gift you don’t get it either, still no one ever says receiving a gift also constitutes giving the gift to yourself no matter how much effort you put into it

 

[37818]

if you don’t reach out and receive the gift you don’t get it either, still no one ever says receiving a gift also constitutes giving the gift to yourself no matter how much effort you put into it

The gift is through faith. Believing God about it.

 

[Revmitchell]

The gift is through faith. Believing God about it.

ok your moving past what I said.

 

[37818]

ok you['e]r moving past what I said.

You may think so. We have no power to receive that gift. It is received by believing by reason God is the giver and the sole means of receiving the gift. It has nothing to do with the receiver's will by which one receives the gift but wholely by means of the will of the giver being God. Romans 8:9 and John 1:13.

 

[Silverhair]

You may think so. We have no power to receive that gift. It is received by believing by reason God is the giver and the sole means of receiving the gift. It has nothing to do with the receiver's will by which one receives the gift but wholely by means of the will of the giver being God. Romans 8:9 and John 1:13.

So it seems you are saying that since God has to be the one to give the gift and since He is the one that decides who gets the gift then would that not make Him the one that condemns everyone that does not get the gift?

You also said the receiver's will has nothing to do with him getting the gift. If that is so then why these verses?
Act 16:30-31
30 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,...”

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,
for it is the power of God to salvation
for everyone who believes

Joh 3:14-15
14 “so must the Son of Man be lifted up
15 so that whoever believes
will in Him have eternal life

Do you not see that the person must do something before they are saved?

And for those that keep saying that faith is a work:
Joh_6:29
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Rom_3:28
a man is justified by faith
apart from works of the Law

So for all those that insist that faith is a work, well as you can see it is the work God requires