convicted1 said:
Bro Allan,
You posted:Zec 14:8 ¶ And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one
When do you think this was fulfilled? This happened when Jesus hung, bled, and died on the cross on Calvary's hill. You can wait for the earthly kingdom all you want, as for me, when He shouts, I will answer, and I will go UP and forever be with Him in Heaven.
Willis
PS this will be my last post on this subject, because I admit, that this is something I haven't studied as much as some, but I do believe this has already happened. I don't want to get into any agruments because if we are saved, the outcome is good either way it happens, do you agre, Bro Allan. Just because I disagree, I disagree in love. May God bless you and your family!!
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Don't worry Bro Willis; attack the messenger is a tatic some use, we certainly are not alone on this, but everyone is entitled to believe what they want. I will not accuse them of not studying enough, but do question their understanding. There is no way to fit a thousand years in what Jesus said: If you notice it is said "this is what I believe about it" and continue to give what they have come up with. I believe salvation is already come. It does not come over and over and over. Jesus died once.
Also, they are still waiting for the "living waters". The time of repentance is now, at end times there shall be no repentance. They will cry for it, but even death will flee from them. We believe that living water is flowing today, to all who will believe.
That fountain was opened for "sin and uncleanliness". I believe the children of God have already been cleansed from sin.
Jhn 5:28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
notice the "one" resurrection, they tell of several. They never consider that it is just the
"souls" that lived and reigned (past tense) with Christ a thousand years. One thing for sure, we teach that men must repent before death now.
Look at how many never studied enough! This is only small part of them.
II. Historical review of millennial thinking in Christian theology.
A. Early church (c. 100-250) - millennium not emphasized. Variety of views.
B. Early reaction to view of earthly millennium.
1. Origen (c. 185-254) attributed such thinking to heretic, Cerinthus
2. Montanist heresy (c.175) had excesses of earthly millennial views.
3. Rampant speculation to calculate end time.
C. Augustine (354-430) rejected his previous earthly millennial position and interpreted
"1000 years" of Rev. 20 as symbolic of entire period from first coming of Christ to
second coming of Christ.
1. Council of Ephesus (431) condemned earthly millennium interpretation as heretical
superstition.
2. Became orthodox view of Church for centuries.
D. Reformation (sixteenth century) - Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Anabaptists accepted symbolic
interpretation of "1000 years." Regarded Catholic Pope as Antichrist.
E. Seventeenth - nineteenth centuries - gradually revived earthly millennium view.
F. Nineteenth & twentieth centuries.
1. J.N. Darby (Plymouth Brethren), followed by D.L. Moody, C.I. Scofield, H.A. Ironside
(Dallas Theological Sem.), developed theological system of Dispensationalism
incorporating earthly millennium and pre-tribulation rapture of Church. Became a
primarily American theological phenomenon.
2. Majority of theological community (Post-millennial and Amillennial) has regarded
Dispensationalism as a modernist aberrational (disorder of the mind) interpretation.
John Calvin (1536)
"But a little later there followed the chiliasts, who limited the reign of Christ to a thousand years. Now their fiction is too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation. And the Apocalypse, from which they undoubtedly drew a pretext for their error does not support them. For the number "one thousand" (Rev. 20:4) does not apply to the eternal blessedness of the church but only to the various disturbances that awaited the church, while still toiling on earth."
C.H. Spurgeon (1865)
"Those who wish to see the arguments upon the unpopular side of the great question at issue, will find them here; this is probably one of the ablest of the accessible treatises from that point of view. We cannot agree with Mr. Young, neither can we refute him. It might tax the ingenuity of the ablest prophetical writers to solve all the difficulties here started, and perhaps it would be unprofitable to attempt the task.
Augustine (354-430) viewed the thousand years of Revelation 20 not as some special future time but "the period beginning with Christ's first coming," that is, the age of the Christian church. Throughout this age, the saints reign with Christ—not in the fullness of the coming kingdom prepared for those blessed by God the Father, but "in some other and far inferior way." This position, often called "amillennial," became the view of most Christians in the West, including the Reformers, for almost 1,500 years."
Daniel Whitby (1703)
"The doctrine of the Millennium was never generally received in the church of Christ " (Daniel Whitby, "A Treatise on the True Millennium," in Patrick, Lowth, Arnald, Whitby, and Lowman, Commentary on the Gospels and Epistles of the New Testament, 4 vols. (Philadelphia, PA: Carey and Hart, 1845), vol. 4, p. 1118.)
"The doctrine of the millennium was not the general doctrine of the primitive church from the times of the apostles to the Nicene council . . . for then it could have made no schism in the church, as Dionysius of Alexandria saith it did." (Ibid., pp. 1122-23. He cites Dionysius 5:6; Eusebius, Eccl. Hist. 7:24.)
Philip Schaff (1877)
"Though millenialism was supressed by the early church, it was nevertheless from time to time revived by heretical sects." (Schaff's History, pg. 299 )
J. Marcellus Kik (1971)
"The premillenialist, however, maintains as a cardinal and fundamental tenet of his system of eschatology that the throne of glory is an earthly throne set up in the material city of Jerusalem. The temporal throne of David is to be reconstructed in Jerusalem... As a matter of fact there is not one passage in the New Testament which gives definite information of a personal reign of Christ upon a temporal throne in the material city of Jerusalem! What seems to be hidden to the apostles have been revealed by uninspired men." (An Eschatology of Victory, 171)
Alexander Brown
"Let us not forget that once in the Church's history it was the common belief that John's 1000 years were gone. Dorner bears witness that the Church up to Constantine understood by Antichrist chiefly the heathen state, and to some extent unbelieving Judaism (System iv.,390). Victorinus, a bishop martyred in 303, reckoned the 1000 years from the birth of Christ.
Augustine wrote his magnum opus 'the City of God' with a sort of dim perception of the identity of the Christian Church with the new Jerusalem. Indeed we know that the 1000 years were held to be running by the generations previous to that date, and so intense was their faith that the universal Church was in a ferment of excitement about and shortly after 1000 A.D. in expectation of the outbreak of Satanic influence. Wickliff, the reformer, believed that Satan bad been unbound at the end of the 1000 years, and was intensely active in his day. That this period in Church history is past, or now runs its course, has been the belief of a roll of eminent men too long to be chronicled on our pages of Augustine, Luther, Bossuet, Cocceius, Grotius, Hammond, Hengstenberg, Keil, Moses Stuart, Philippi, Maurice." (Alexander Brown, Great Day of the Lord, p. 216.)
BBob,
) and then He slays the remnant with the sword of His mouth (the word of His mouth) Rev 19:20-21 ... Kings (leaders), nations (the people), so it is better descibed as the world will try to dethrone Christ at His coming but they will all be laid low.