Mitt Romney and the Platform his Presidential Nomination Gives Mormonism to Expand

[Ed B]

Question, If you found yourself living in a small town in Utah where the majority of people were muslim, and there were two muslims running for county recorder...would you...
a. Not vote?
b. Not vote, and consider any Christian who did vote for either candidate to be in sin, even though the county needs a recorder to keep records?
c. Vote for whichever one of them you thought would do the best job, because the county needs a recorder?

By not voting for either candidate, are you not yourself allowing one of their platforms to enlarge...by default, as it were?

I hope you won't see my response as confrontational but here is how I would respond and why I am struggling with this decision.

Your analogy falls short for me and here is why. My chief concern with a practicing Mormon in the White House and the subsequent increase in legitimacy and prestige of Mormonism is because Mormonism is a wolf in sheep's clothing more than any other religion this side of JW. Every Mormon I have every known describes themselves and their religion as “Christian too”. When you consider the shallowness of religious acumen among the unchurched and even many of the laity in our churches, they are ripe for this deception should Romney win. No, there won’t be mass conversions among Baptists who post on this message board but there will be an increase in conversions among confused or weak people with a Evangelical heritage (grandmother was a Baptist?). Trying to draw a parallel with Islam, Hindus or atheists doesn’t hold up for me because they don’t claim to be Christian. Even drawing a parallel with Catholicism isn’t even close to this in my view.

I have to lean heavily on my Calvinistic inclinations toward God’s sovereignty in calling the elect and in placing leaders in government to help me justify a vote for this kind of deception. If I were truly arminian I couldn’t do it. I would write in Mike Huckabee. I may anyway because I am responsible for my actions.

Having said all that there are three reasons why I am flirting with voting for Romney.

1. I lean toward a Calvinistic view of Soteriology
2. I do not think how he will govern will be significantly different than how an Evangelical would govern with the same basic political/economic philosophy as a baseline
3. I think the damage has already been done with his party nomination and the strong Evangelical support he is getting


We better start teaching our church members, our kids and our friends about the differences between Christianity and Mormonism and we better make sure they understand why it matters.

 

[InTheLight]

But we're giving the false teachings of Mormonism a larger worldwide platform.

I think there is no denying this, however, the question then becomes: How much more of a platform is being gained? I say, not very much.

False teaching that is sending folks to hell.

Incorrect. People are going to Hell because they are sinners and haven't been born again. An unregenerate person on their way to Hell that becomes a Mormon is still an unregenerate person on their way to Hell.

So in my little corner of the world it makes no sense to me to say that I want to keep more of my money to give to the Lord's work to help win more souls to Christ, while at the same time giving a platform to that which trips men into hell.

They're already going to Hell. The problem, as I see it, is that by giving Mormonism a wider stage you open up the possibility that more people will become Mormons, really indoctrinated, and really brainwashed Mormons. Zealous Mormons.


because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

In other words, unreachable Mormons.

 

[Zaac]

I think there is no denying this, however, the question then becomes: How much more of a platform is being gained? I say, not very much.

But the question I have asked before is how much is enough? Is one person being drawn into this evil and going to hell not enough?

Incorrect. People are going to Hell because they are sinners and haven't been born again. An unregenerate person on their way to Hell that becomes a Mormon is still an unregenerate person on their way to Hell.

And false teaching that draws them into a cult and keeps them away from the truth will keep them as unregenerate sinners on the way to hell.

They're already going to Hell. The problem, as I see it, is that by giving Mormonism a wider stage you open up the possibility that more people will become Mormons, really indoctrinated, and really brainwashed Mormons. Zealous Mormons.

Established. If they are going to hell, why would Christians give a larger platform to something that competes with the Gospel?

 

[Zaac]

Grow up, Zaac. Show some grace. I have admitted the possibility that I may be mistaken, though I think not because of your postings. Your growling reinforces my opinion that I might be spot-on after all.

You grow up. You're the one continuing to portray me as something I have said I am not. But as I said, certain brands of innuendo seem to be acceptable on this board.

 

[Zaac]

Arbo, you know that I think you have a solid postion on this election. We all understand the dilemma of supporting Romney and the contradictions it produces. I feel the same way. Certainly you have never lied. Maybe Zaac is trying to convey he dislikes Obama and Romney to the same degree.

On the contrary. I don't dislike either of them . I love them both. I dislike the policies and immorality of both equally.:laugh:

 

[Arbo]

You grow up. You're the one continuing to portray me as something I have said I am not. But as I said, certain brands of innuendo seem to be acceptable on this board.

*sigh*

I opened a new thread in the politics section so that you could answer my question why you have offered no names as write-in alternatives.

 

[LadyEagle]

And as I've said, I'm used to you pointing out my "personal attacks" while ignoring those from the folks whose politics you agree with. And when people tell lies, they should be called liars.

And if you and anyone else does not want to be called a liar, then stop saying again and again from thread to thread that I'm in the tank for Obama or that I'm an Obama plant when I have PLAINLY said otherwise.

The hypocrisy is showing again so take it back to your politics forum.

I think if you bother to ask people around here who have been members much longer than you have, you will see that I try to be even-handed in deleting personal attacks, even with those whose politics I agree with.

And calling people "liars" is clearly against the posting rules that YOU signed and agreed to when you joined the BB.

Your personal opinion of me or others of like mind matters to me not one bit. Your opinions are yours and you are entitled to them, but not at the expense of making personal attacks against other members. Note: Infractions and discipline will take place if the personal attacks continue. Others have been banned for the same.

Now that the thread has been moved by another moderator or administrator back to the Politics forum, I will be monitoring it closely.

PS: I don't believe you are in the tank for obama, you are not a lib. And I don't believe you are a troll. Just tone it down, okay? :flower:

 

[Don]

Ed B, (and all others, but maybe especially Zaac)
Did JFK being a catholic cause anyone else to become catholic?
Did Jimmy Carter being southern baptist cause anyone to become southern baptist?
Did Reagen being a presbyterian cause anyone to become a presbyterian?
Has Obama being a former member of Wright's church caused anyone to join that church? Or has his alleged profession of Christianity caused any of his liberal friends or followers to become Christians?

If you can't look at the historical office of the president and definitively say that attaining that office increased the numbers of their particular religious beliefs, then the prediction for a future president doing so is hyperbole. Unless that religion is islam.

 

[annsni]

My chief concern with a practicing Mormon in the White House and the subsequent increase in legitimacy and prestige of Mormonism is because Mormonism is a wolf in sheep's clothing more than any other religion this side of JW. Every Mormon I have every known describes themselves and their religion as “Christian too”. When you consider the shallowness of religious acumen among the unchurched and even many of the laity in our churches, they are ripe for this deception should Romney win. No, there won’t be mass conversions among Baptists who post on this message board but there will be an increase in conversions among confused or weak people with a Evangelical heritage (grandmother was a Baptist?). Trying to draw a parallel with Islam, Hindus or atheists doesn’t hold up for me because they don’t claim to be Christian. Even drawing a parallel with Catholicism isn’t even close to this in my view.

Yet the President claims to be a Christian and everyone buys it - yet he obviously isn't a true Christian as the Bible would define. I would rather a Mormon, who clearly has beliefs that are different than the Bible than someone who more closely "pretends" to follow the Bible but doesn't. Trust me, I've heard the arguments from people and most believe Obama to be a Christian. How "wolf in sheep's clothing" is that????

 

[Zaac]

I think if you bother to ask people around here who have been members much longer than you have, you will see that I try to be even-handed in deleting personal attacks, even with those whose politics I agree with.

And calling people "liars" is clearly against the posting rules that YOU signed and agreed to when you joined the BB.

Your personal opinion of me or others of like mind matters to me not one bit. Your opinions are yours and you are entitled to them, but not at the expense of making personal attacks against other members. Note: Infractions and discipline will take place if the personal attacks continue. Others have been banned for the same.

Now that the thread has been moved by another moderator or administrator back to the Politics forum, I will be monitoring it closely.

PS: I don't believe you are in the tank for obama, you are not a lib. And I don't believe you are a troll. Just tone it down, okay? :flower:

Okay.:laugh:

 

[Zaac]

Ed B, (and all others, but maybe especially Zaac)
Did JFK being a catholic cause anyone else to become catholic?

As would be the case with a Mormon President, I believe that having a President of a non-Christian faith will give cause for some to take a second or closer look at the religion and may pull some folks into the lies.

Did Jimmy Carter being southern baptist cause anyone to become southern baptist?

While I have no statistics, I'm sure there were folks who gave Christianity a look because of Jimmy Carter's professed faith.

Did Reagen being a presbyterian cause anyone to become a presbyterian?

Same answer as before.

Has Obama being a former member of Wright's church caused anyone to join that church?

Possibly. I'm sure there might be a lot of folks out there who would join that church just so that they can sat they go to Obama's old church.

Or has his alleged profession of Christianity caused any of his liberal friends or followers to become Christians?

Possibly, if he has discussed his brand of "Christianity" with folks, i wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that some now adhere to his brand of "Christianity".

If you can't look at the historical office of the president and definitively say that attaining that office increased the numbers of their particular religious beliefs, then the prediction for a future president doing so is hyperbole. Unless that religion is islam.

Can you definitively say that it hasn't increased? Where's your proof?

 

[Ed B]

Ed B, (and all others, but maybe especially Zaac)
Did JFK being a catholic cause anyone else to become catholic?
Did Jimmy Carter being southern baptist cause anyone to become southern baptist?
Did Reagen being a presbyterian cause anyone to become a presbyterian?
Has Obama being a former member of Wright's church caused anyone to join that church? Or has his alleged profession of Christianity caused any of his liberal friends or followers to become Christians?

It is likley that with JFK and Jimmy Carter, there was an uptick in acceptance

If you can't look at the historical office of the president and definitively say that attaining that office increased the numbers of their particular religious beliefs, then the prediction for a future president doing so is hyperbole. Unless that religion is islam.

It is likely that with JFK and Jimmy Carter there was an uptick in acceptance and the prestige of their denominations and I believe JFK certainly helped break down a barrier between Catholics and Evangelicals. It didn't happen in a day but it certainly happened over time. Neither you nor I have stats to prove our position but I believe that JFK becoming president helped smooth out Catholic / Evangelical relations and may very well have caused some to consider Catholicism where they would not have otherwise. In the case of Catholicism I am not sure that is altogether bad.

Let us hope and pray that Romney becoming POTUS does not smooth out relations between Mormons and Evangelicals. Meanwhile some kids, especially outside the Bible Belt, who are in middle school and high school today will be more likely to grow up thinking that President Romney's church is just another of many acceptable choices from among the many Christian denominations. Many already do because Mormons tell them something along those lines....after all it is just another testament of Jesus Christ right?

 

[Don]

Zaac,
My proof, my friend, is the fact of how many times you just answered "possibly." If anyone was swayed into visiting, considering, and/or even joining the aforementioned denominations, then the number has been so small as to automatically prove the hyperbole of your position.

 

[Zaac]

Yet the President claims to be a Christian and everyone buys it - yet he obviously isn't a true Christian as the Bible would define.

Romney claims to be a Christian to but I haven't heard too many folks explaining why he is not as defined by the Bible.

I would rather a Mormon, who clearly has beliefs that are different than the Bible than someone who more closely "pretends" to follow the Bible but doesn't.

Yes, everyone is doing what is right in his own eyes. But Romney too is pretending to follow the Bible but he doesn't .

Trust me, I've heard the arguments from people and most believe Obama to be a Christian. How "wolf in sheep's clothing" is that????

And Romney is telling people that he is a Christian and it is rare that I hear anyone refute that.

Joel Osteen has a large platform and he has told folks that Obama and Romney are Christians.

I would have to imagine that if just a single person, someone has already given these false teachings a second look just based on supposed Christian support for one or the other.

 

[Zaac]

JW Marriott Thanks Romney for Bringing Attention to Mormonism

BOSTON — The head of the prominent Marriott hotel chain and fellow Mormon J.W. Marriott thanked Mitt Romney today during a Mormon church service for bringing “positive attention” to the religion, which is often considered to be shrouded in mystery.

“There has never been as much positive attention to the church, thanks to the wonderful campaign of Mitt Romney and his family,” Marriott said during a service at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Wolfeboro, N.H., the lakeside town where the Romney family has a home.

Marriott’s remarks come after a noticeable shift in the campaign to highlight Romney’s faith, a subject that has been rarely spoken about publicly by the candidate and his wife until last week, when both mentioned Mormonism in their speeches at the Republican National Convention. Additionally, several speakers arranged by the campaign to appear at the RNC highlighted the candidate’s strong ties to his faith.

Romney and Ann Romney, who sat six rows back in the church this morning, showed little reaction to Marriott’s testimony, according to a small group of reporters who accompanied the couple inside.
Marriott spoke about an interview he did in the 1990s with CBS News’ Mike Wallace for “60 Minutes,” retelling a story about the undergarments many practicing Mormons wear, another subject the Romneys have never discussed.

“Of course the one question that they put on the air was, I understand Mormons wear different underwear, and I said yes, and he says, “Do you?’” Marriott recalled.


Marriott explained that he told Wallace at the time that the underwear looks like a “T-shirt and a pair of boxer shorts” and that it prompted him to tell a story about an instance he believes the garments saved his life.
“I’d been involved in a very serious boat accident, here in New Hampshire. I caught fire; my polyester pants had burned off all the way to my waist. But my undergarments from my waist down to my knees had not even been singed. There was not a mark on them. And I said, these holy undergarments saved my life,” Marriott said.

“And after the interview we walked out together, and he looked at me, and said, ‘I wish I had the faith of the Mormons. I lost my 19-year-old son while he was rock climbing a few years ago, and I don’t know where he is and I don’t know if I’ll ever see him again,’” Marriott said.

The Romney family and the Marriott family have a long standing friendship. Romney’s father, George Romney, was so close to John Willard Marriott, the founder of the Marriott enterprise, that he named Romney after him. Romney’s first name is actually Willard, and Mitt is his middle name.

Marriott thanks Romney

 

[Don]

Ed,
As you said in a previous message, and reiterated in your last, yes, it is necessary for us to ensure we're teaching our children--and anyone else who will listen--the truth about Mormonism.

 

[Ed B]

Yet the President claims to be a Christian and everyone buys it - yet he obviously isn't a true Christian as the Bible would define. I would rather a Mormon, who clearly has beliefs that are different than the Bible than someone who more closely "pretends" to follow the Bible but doesn't. Trust me, I've heard the arguments from people and most believe Obama to be a Christian. How "wolf in sheep's clothing" is that????

Romney's beliefs are clearly different to you and me but not to millions in the mission field waiting to be harvested. Thus, Romney is guilty of the exact same thing as Obama but from a different angle. If Romney and his church made no claims of being Christian then I would be much less concerned. Obama's brand of watered-down liberal Christianity is very old and very well entrenched in the upper Midwest and northeast. And as bad as I may think it is, it is possible if difficult for people to be saved in those liberal Christian Churches even if it is in spite of their bad ministers. I assume at the very least the Word of God is read once in a while.

The point here is both candidates pose real spiritual risks; not to strong Christians, but certainly to those who have not been well trained in Biblical and doctrinal fundamentals, so they understand why they believe what their mother/preacher/parent told them to believe. If I cared nothing for spiritual consequences I could very easily support Romney as he lines up with me pretty well on economic issues.

 

[Zaac]

Zaac,
My proof, my friend, is the fact of how many times you just answered "possibly."

That's not proof. :laugh:

If anyone was swayed into visiting, considering, and/or even joining the aforementioned denominations, then the number has been so small as to automatically prove the hyperbole of your position.

And I ask again, isn't one person going to hell large enough?

You have no more evidence of an uptick in the numbers not going up than I do about them going up. That's why i said possibly.

But I also believe that if we are honest with ourselves, we will admit that there will be folks who flock to Mormonism because of a Mormon President.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Nope. We've never been left with two primary candidates who are clearly against God. This is new territory.

Please provide proof of this statement. Or at the very least a definition of the term "against God".

Thanks.

 

[Mexdeaf]

But I also believe that if we are honest with ourselves, we will admit that there will be folks who flock to Mormonism because of a Mormon President.

Then that means you must believe that the person who becomes President has more power to influence the lives of people than the Almighty.

Your God is much smaller than mine.